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Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81
Well, I'll have to say that at least on the "enemy" part, no, you didn't "get it"! That's not you or any person.
The enemy is our spiritual enemy, a common enemy of believers and unbelievers. The enemy wants to sow discord among believers, and cause pride and hateful judgment. And is far too successful. On the other hand, the enemy wants to make us accept sin and say "it's all good."
We were never given authority to fight earthly battles against earthly people, but our battle is a spiritual one. Sometimes we forget that we're all travellers on the road of life... NOT enemies!
I love this post! I think it's important to remember that the Christians' enemy is also an enemy of unbelievers. The Christian recognizes this enemy. However, the unbeliever may not recognize it and, therefore, incorrectly assumes that he (the unbeliever) is the enemy that the Christian fights. I don't consider anyone in these forums my enemy.
The Apostle Paul identifies the enemy:
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:12)
In human terms, the battleground is the ideas, precepts, and principles we each hold so dear. With a few exceptions, I think most people (Christian and non-Christian) participating here are seeking the same thing--Truth! Wouldn't it be nice if everyone fought for their ideas with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience as LittleT mentioned?
I think those of us who have been around for a long time like to think that this forum used to be kinder and gentler. However, I'm not really sure that was ever the case because there have always been people who refuse to participate because of the tone found here. There have always been people who are determined to turn even the most positive threads into an argument. I'll have to agree with Freedom that "even peace is offensive to those that don't desire peace."
That said, I do believe Christian unity can be found here. Most of the Christian participants are united when it comes to the basic premise of Scripture--Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life! Most are also united in the conviction that answers and truth can be found in the Bible, and most encourage others to search the Bible for themselves rather than rely on man's interpretation. In my opinion, those who find that basic message offensive are quick to find fault with our differences because they are looking for an excuse to ignore the simple message of love as presented by Christ because that message also encompasses the uncomfortable issue of sin.
While I absolutely understand and agree with what Alpha is trying to say in this thread and in the OP--that Christians need to reflect the love of Christ in all that we say and do--I'm not sure that's as big a problem as he thinks it is. With a few exceptions, I think most of the Christians have consistently shown humility, grace, patience, and love for others. That's not to say that we don't all slip on occasion, but I've seen a great deal of love and unity even when we disagree with others. Perhaps I'm just a Pollyanna! Those who look for the love and unity will recognize it; I believe it is here in spades! By the same token, those who look for hate and dissension will probably be blind to the good exhibited here and only pick up on the bad. And they will use that bad as a weapon to belittle and discourage us that are trying to fight the good fight.
Amen, Sandgirl!! Jesus was perfect and He NEVER sinned, so His holy anger was not a sin! Anger in the right perspective is needed for us to be driven enough to challenge such nonsense. Passiveness and meekness have their place as we serve and bow to our God, but He would not tell us to "put on the full armor of God" unless He expected us to fight for His Truth!
While I agree with what you say, Jesus anger most certainly was holy, righteous, He was righteous, so I believe His anger was always in check and aligned with God's word. We as humans, however, this may not always be the case for us and thus we have to be all the more careful when exhibiting this anger. While it may be righteous, holy and appropriate anger to us at the moment, doesn't always mean that God would feel the same way about it.
Thus as you stated, it is in the proper perspective that it can turn to be a positive thing. But my caution would still remain that it needs to be checked out with God still because our emotions, our heart, our thoughts can be quite deceiving.
God did tell us to put on the full armor, and I too believe that He desires us to fight for His truth. However, the important thing is that where we are told to put on the full armor of God is so that we may withstand the fiery darts of the enemy. Therefore, once again God is telling us that our battle is waged in the spiritual realm, not against man.
In the spiritual sense, yes we absolutely fight. We fight on our knees in prayer for ourselves, our loved ones, our friends, strangers, and even for our enemies. In the physical sense we fight for God's truth in how we live our lives, what doors we open, what influences we allow around us, witnessing to others (moreso with our own lives than with our words), recognizing sin as sin and being able to point that out in a manner that reflects God's love, mercy and compassion. We fight for His truth in being forgiving, as our Father in Heaven is forgiving. We fight for His truth in practical ways such as in how we vote for elected officials and changes in our country that do not align themselves with biblical truth to the best of our ability. We fight for His truth in walking the walk, and not merely talking the talk.
Fighting for His truth, however, should never be in attempting to bring condemnation (which is very different than conviction) upon any other being for the truth of God's word says that we are to judge not lest we be judged. To remove the plank out of our own eye before we go pointing out the speck in the eye of another. To choose our words wisely, guard our hearts, guard our tongues, lest any of us would cause another to go astray. To love and forgive others as God has loved us and forgiven us.
You are very right in that Jesus simply said "Follow me". He gave the invitation...
Jesus didn't kick the door in, He doesn't force His way into anyone's heart, nor does He take an prisoners and cause them to follow Him where ever He goes or force them to do as He wills. No. Jesus invites. Jesus knocks. He leaves the decision to follow and/or to invite Him in to us, individually.
Mari,
I was just saying this same thing to a dear friend of mine earlier today.
He would not tell us to "put on the full armor of God" unless He expected us to fight for His Truth!
Since you like to pull passages out of context so much, let's ensure other readers have the full picture before deciding whether or not to agree with you.
In Ephesians 6:10-18, Paul writing a specific letter to the "Saints in Ephesus" in his day...
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Last edited by Fighting For Air; 09-19-2008 at 12:06 PM..
Just a couple of thoughts if I might add something to this discussion....
I am aware with every single post that I make that I am saying things in the presence of not only believers but also of unbelievers. I try, with God's grace, to point others to Christ through what I say. Sometimes I succeed in that it seems more than at other times but that is my heart.
Chrstians as we know them on this forum will never agree on everything. That simply will not happen. There are several reasons for that but I think primarily we have not been taught to stick to what is written and only to what is written. Then there is selfish ambition, a desire to be somebody, pride, and a whole host of other things that lead to being argumentative.
All we can do is share what we believe God wants to say. Pointing one's to investigate things for themselves.
We must not try and cater to the whim of some Christians to not face truth. We must not water down the message that God might want to say through us.
It would be grand if the Christians could agree more. And I do believe that is possible. But it will take great patience and instruction to get there. Christians must unlearn much that they have learned from their respective churches. Christians must take personally responsibility to search the Scriptures so as to believe what is true rather than letting others, such as their pastors, do the thinking for them. Like I said that is going to take a lot of time.
It won't happen overnight and it certainly won't happen on this forum.
We cannot afford to offer to others a false "unity" based on Christians not engaging in fruitful discussion. That is not a kind of unity that God will bless.
I do not believe real unity will happen on this forum between all those who profess to be Christians. There is no discipline here. No church discipline I mean. No accountability for the things we do in real life. Unless we choose to make ourselves publicly accountable...which is rare.
Like I said...all we can do is share the truth of God and pray that the Lord will use it to help Christians and unbelievers alike to see Him. Contention and argument is part of the norm for a public forum where anyone can post whatever they want (within the guidelines of the forum rules). There is no way around that with this type of public interaction.
There is little of anything that can be done about it. That's just life on a public forum.
I'm struggling with a lot of things but one of the main things I'm struggling with is us.
What in God's name are we doing? (And I mean that quite literally)
We come to this forum and launch all out wars on ourselves and with those that are non-believers.
We rail against what's right and what's wrong and to what avail?
Are we God's servants?
Are we?
Think about it.
I certainly try to be God's servant.
I know many of you claim and indeed I believe you want to be God's servants. We'll that makes us ALL co-servants.....not masters.
I don't know. I just read some scriptures this evening I feel compelled to share and would appreciate any comments or thoughts you have on them.
I think a lot about these forums. The various people on them. How many of them I consider 'friend'. How many of them I have prayed for.
Here's the thing:
We(Christians) are here and we're not behind closed doors of a small group study. We're not in the privacy of our own homes. We're not in our sanctuary where the Word is preached. We are, when here in the forums, in the world. We're surrounded by some other Christians and we love to talk and chat but many times we start trying to get into the meat of matters when in fact in places like this we're commanded to 'keep it light' (milk). A LOT of the folks reading our posts are unbelievers, new believers or weak believers. We should be doing one thing and one thing only here, reflecting HIM. We have a venue here where people TOTALLY opposed to God and the idea of a Savior WILLINGLY engage us in conversation. Do you know what a privileged that is? What are we doing with this opportunity?
Folks, ".....as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." (Col 3:12-14)
Anyway, here's the scriptures until I can get some other comments together.
Listen, I love you guys.....I know that sounds weird but I really really do.
From the atheists and/or agnostics of MontanaGuy, GCSTroop, June, cncracer, cheilgirl, and denverian to those who have faiths both similar to mine and very different. We (I am speaking to Christians) have a responsibility to rightly reflect Christ's love to the world. Seriously. That is our MAIN OBJECTIVE.
Ah, I don't know how to really say what it is I want to say, so let me just give ya those scriptures that I can't get out of my mind.
It's a series, please pray over them Christians. These are from the book our Risen King has provided for us.
Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Col 4:5-6
and
Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. Romans 14:1-4 (please read all of Romans 14)
and
Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. 1 Cor 9:19-23
...that's it.....that's all....this was probably more for me than anyone...maybe God's trying to get it through my thick head....but I thought I'd share and see if you could help
I need to make myself a slave to everyone....then I'll be one step closer....
God bless.....
thanks for sharing. there is a lack of meekness that comes thru on CDF no?
FYI not everybody that posts on CDF is a christian or nice person or shares noble perceptions such as yours.
.
Good post. We are to be light and salt. It's certainly OK to share opinions and some differing beliefs but Christ is at the center. We will never agree on the side issues, but that's what they are ~ side issues! There needs to be a gentleness and a caring for people who are at a different maturity level in the Lord when we are posting.
Something tells June that hers would be considered one of the souls that are at stake. As such, given June's "atheist status," she also has the feeling that she is one of the "enemy." While June's not exactly certain she's okay with that, (as it surely perplexes her) what concerns her more is how she is to be "fought and attacked" when all the while, this is to "be done in love." If June is thus understanding all this correctly, June is taking her soul into her own protective safety and safe keeping, as neither June, nor her soul, can withstand any fight, any battle. But as she steals away with her soul, locked up, safe and secure, she also remembers that Jesus didn't have to do any fighting or attacking. -June thought he simply said "Follow me." An invitation always seemed so much nicer to June than a battle. That initially seemed so much more reasonable to June, but now she has fled for safety, as she'd rather be alone.
-But then, June supposes, that is why June just doesn't "get it," and why June's an atheist...
My sweet gentle Junie,
The battle that is being waged against all, christian and non christian alike is the spirit of satan. The spirit of satan is who we should all remember we are in battle with.
Junie, you who are so gentle and kind, loving and most helpful, we are not at war with you.
Our battle is really called spiritual warfare. satan goes after believers and non-belivers alike.
Find peace in yourself, light your candle of love for all to see and try not to plow it out. God is love and peace they are not seprate. Peace be with you.
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,387,379 times
Reputation: 3539
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. (Philippians 2:3-4, KJV)
I've been thinking about this thread a lot today, and I've read some of the other threads in the Christianity sub-forum. I've got to admit, it makes me sad. Yes, I see gentleness, love, and joy expressed. But I also see sniping aimed at our fellow brothers and sisters.
The Lord impressed the above verses upon me. I looked them up in various translations, but I purposely chose the KJV because of the words "strife" and "vainglory." Other versions use words like selfishness and conceit, attributes we rarely recognize in ourselves yet often erroneously place on others. However, we can definitely tell if our words are likely to bring about strife. If that is the case, any glory or kudos we receive are in vain. Instead, it's just hot air that puffs us up but carries no substance.
What's happened to the precept of esteeming others better than ourselves? We'll never build ourselves up by tearing others down. That's the way of the world, and it's ugly! Is it absolutely necessary to voice every disagreement we may have with another person's viewpoint? I won't even go into the cheap shots I've seen thrown at others! (I'll admit to being guilty of this myself, at times. ) The members of this forum have varying levels of maturity in Christ, diverse convictions on minor Biblical issues, different spiritual gifts, and differing degrees of discernment. (How's that for alliteration? ) Except for cases of grievous offense in handling God's Word, what's so wrong with letting others share what they believe God is telling them? Just because a subject or personality doesn't float your boat, is it any reason to sink someone else's?
In chapter 3 of Philippians, Paul talks about pressing on toward the goal to win the prize. Running the race is difficult enough as it is. How unfortunate that people who should be our teammates are making it harder! Paul goes on to say that, "All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you." (Phil. 3:3) Do you get that? Some people will think differently. That's OK because God (not us) will make things clear either to us or to the other individual. When we disagree, why not step back and let God do the work of perfecting His children? We only get in the way.
Finally, we're told to "look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others." Are we getting so wrapped up on our own beliefs, convictions, and ideas that we are missing the blessing that God wants to bestow on us if we listen to someone else? This verse isn't talking about compromise, and neither am I. The simple point is that we can learn from each other, and sometimes we can learn from the least likely source. That preacher we love to hate just may say something that's actually very deep and convicting. If someone else learns or appreciates something from him, do we disregard the good message just because we don't like the messenger? Perhaps so, but does that give us the right to detract from what our fellow forum member is trying to share? It's one thing to speak out against error in the message, but it's quite disrespectful to sideline the discussion just because we don't like the source he/she is citing. How about the kooky Christians who have different social, scientific, political, or End Times beliefs than we hold? Are we willing to learn from them, or do we shut our ears? Perhaps that kook actually has been listening to God and is trying to sound a warning or set things straight. We're to test what we hear against the Word of God, but it's pretty hard if we either do not have ears to hear or we don't open the Bible for ourselves.
Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life (Philippians 2:14-16)
Do we want to continue to argue, or do we want to become blameless and pure?
Are we enabling the crooked and depraved generation by our behavior?
Are we shining like stars in this forum?
We Christians hold the greatest knowledge given to man--the word of life! What are we doing with it?
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