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Old 09-27-2008, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Living in the San Diego area
1,040 posts, read 1,891,144 times
Reputation: 228

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I have been thinking about this some lately and was wondering if anyone would care to discuss this.

Now before anyone starts thinking that I have gone off the deep end into heresy or something I should clarify what I am wondering about a bit .

There is a lot to this issue and I am not sure that the standard belief among many Christians that the Bible in it's present form is THE word of God is valid.

For example I know for a fact that the Bible or more specifically the New Testament as we know it today...did not even exist in New Testament times. So for New Testament Christians, our word of God, could not possibly have been theirs.

Yet the phrase "word of God" is indeed found in the New Testament. But that phrase generally refers to the gospel message, or something else other than what we, as modern day Christians, think it means.

I do believe that the bible contains God's thoughts. For sure. For sure. I rely on it to know what the Lord would have me believe and do. And I do believe it is accurate. Not full of contradictions and other such things.

It seems to me that there are several options to this issue. The actual words in the New Testament could be the actual words of God. The words in the New Testament could be expressing the thoughts of God but not neccessarily word for word. Or both.

The problem with the first case, that is that the words in the New Testament are the actual words of God, is that the words in our English bibles are not the words in the original language. Which one is the word of God? The original language? The English (or Chinese, Russian, Spanish, etc.) language in our translations? Both?

I am more inclined to believe that the words in our bibles express the thoughts of God. Not word for word but rather completely in groups of words. But those thoughts can be expressed in many different languages and in many varying ways through the use of different words.

For example I can say...Jesus died or our sins...or...what Christ did is die for our sins...or...the cross is where Jesus died for our sins. All saying essentially the same thing. Expressing a truth of God. But the actual words may vary somewhat. One would find even more variety in saying the different phrases in different languages. But all these phrases would be saying the same essential thing. That Christ died for our sins.

Another problem is this...it is my understanding that Jesus most often quoted from a version of the Old Testament known as the Septuagint. The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Old Testament Hebrew (known as the Masoretic text) in use at the time of Christ. If we take the actual words, word for word of the bible, to be THE words of God then which words do we look at as being THE words of God? Those that were in a Greek translation of the Hebrew or the Hebrew itself?

If Jesus quoted from a Greek translation of the Hebrew and that in turn is translated into English...which one is THE word of God?

Do you see my dilemna here?

That is why I am inclined to think that the word of God is those thoughts expressed by whatever translation one is using in whatever language it is written that expresses what God wants to say to us.

From that standpoint...the Hebrew or the Septuagint both contain the word of God. His thoughts. Likewise the English or Spanish or any other language bible that accurately expresses the thoughts contained in the original languages are likewise the word of God. Expressing His thoughts to us today.

But it is not a literal, word for word, word of God where only ONE set of words are THE Word of God. If that is the case...then which one is THE Word of God?? The Hebrew? The Septuagint (which Jesus often quoted)? The English?

If anyone wants to discuss this I would like to hear your thoughts? Maybe we can also look at various verses that use the phrase "word of God" to see if we can discern something as to what that meant in New Testament times and might mean to us today.

Carlos

PS. Please do not take anything I said to mean that the Bible does not contain truth from God. It does. And I am staking my life on it and encouraging others to do the same. Experiencing God in a personal relationship that is only possible when one relies on what the Bible says about Him. But I am not convinced that each and every word in a particular version of the Bible is THE one and only word that came from God...such that other versions are...well...not THE word of God.
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:56 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,564 posts, read 21,669,686 times
Reputation: 18086
IMO, the word of God is Jesus in the scriptures.".In the beginning was the word"...There are many verses that I think plainly tell us that "the word" is Jesus..There was no new testament at that time and the gospels and epistles were not written down at the time of these events..

'They spoke the word of God (about Jesus) with boldness' (Acts 4:31),
'They preached the word of God (Jesus) in the synagogues of Judaea' (Acts 13:5),
'It was necessary for the word of God (again referring to Jesus) to be spoken to you first' (Acts 13:46)
'The word (Jesus) became flesh and dwelt among us' (John 1:14
'his name(Jersus) is called the word of God' (Rev 19:13).
In Acts 17:11, they received the word (Jesus)with all eagerness, daily examining the scriptures(OT) whether these things were so'.

There are many other verses of scripture indicating to me that "the word" is Jesus...But once again, "What do I know"? When I read the bible I just read it for what it says, without a bunch my opinions about what it "really says"
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,069,667 times
Reputation: 981
my papist equation:


Jesus Christ=The Word="living bread"
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,556 posts, read 11,865,071 times
Reputation: 4516
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Rev 19:13)

(You) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me. (Jn 5:39)

If we don't eat His flesh and drink His blood, we don't have life. I love the Bible, but it's dead paper unless the Spirit of God gives it life.
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:57 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,613,202 times
Reputation: 3758
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
IMO, the word of God is Jesus in the scriptures.".In the beginning was the word"...There are many verses that I think plainly tell us that "the word" is Jesus..There was no new testament at that time and the gospels and epistles were not written down at the time of these events..

'They spoke the word of God (about Jesus) with boldness' (Acts 4:31),
'They preached the word of God (Jesus) in the synagogues of Judaea' (Acts 13:5),
'It was necessary for the word of God (again referring to Jesus) to be spoken to you first' (Acts 13:46)
'The word (Jesus) became flesh and dwelt among us' (John 1:14
'his name(Jersus) is called the word of God' (Rev 19:13).
In Acts 17:11, they received the word (Jesus)with all eagerness, daily examining the scriptures(OT) whether these things were so'.

There are many other verses of scripture indicating to me that "the word" is Jesus...But once again, "What do I know"? When I read the bible I just read it for what it says, without a bunch my opinions about what it "really says"
I agree with the meaning of some of the scriptures that you quoted, but I believe most of them are about Jesus...but not literally Jesus, but I also believe the term 'word of God' is referring to all of the Holy Scriptures.
Take for instance:
Eph.6.17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
Heb. 4.12 for the word of God is living and powerful,and sharper than any two-edged sword, peircing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart.

There are two differant words translated word (of God), the first is logos which means: a word,speech, matter, reason.
The second is rhema which means:a saying , speach, matter, thing .
It is logos is that is often speaking of Christ, but definitely not always.

In Eph.6.17 it is rhema
In Heb.4.12 it is logos.
And yet both of them are comparing the word to a sword.
The word logos is not always speaking of Christ, but of the doctrine of Christ.It is true, the doctrine of Christ came from Christ, but it is not literally Christ ! Actually, I believe the 'word' being Christ is very infrequent in the scriptures.
I think an indepth study of the 'word' as spoken of in the scriptures is important. The same word has many meanings, and must not be taken out of context.

I believe that some of the scriptures that you quoted are speaking of the good news about Jesus, and are not Jesus Himself.
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,644,962 times
Reputation: 1101
It is every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Jesus said, i can only do what i see the Father do. Jesus became the word of God, as we are to become the word of God. It is the fulfilment of the promise of Oneness.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 09-27-2008, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Living in the San Diego area
1,040 posts, read 1,891,144 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
There are many other verses of scripture indicating to me that "the word" is Jesus...But once again, "What do I know"? When I read the bible I just read it for what it says, without a bunch my opinions about what it "really says"
May I suggest blue that you know a lot more than you let on . Your bible reading methodology is better than most
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:41 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,879 times
Reputation: 10
I appreciated reading all of these comments - when I am "in the Word of God" I am "in God"...never realizing that, when I was saying to friends that I was "in the word of God" I always just thought of it as reading God's words.....interesting!
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Bora Bora: Vava'u.
738 posts, read 1,692,302 times
Reputation: 535
Using the term Word in John 1:1, I feel that John is applying a concept and trying to expand or describe what was familiar with his audience and using that to introduce his readers to the true Logos of God in Jesus Christ:: the Living Word of God,(( fully God and yet fully man)), who came to reveal God to man and redeem all who believe in Him from their sin(s).
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