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Old 08-12-2009, 04:26 PM
 
Location: NC
14,867 posts, read 17,143,188 times
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Quote:
Sooner or later ALL will believe the truth and be saved.
What God decides is WHEN.


ALL FALLEN CREATURES WILL BE SAVED BECAUSE OF WHAT CHRIST ACCOMPLISHED BY HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION, THROUGH THE POWER IN THE BLOOD OF HIS CROSS.


Amen.God bless.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:47 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,390,261 times
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Quote:
All fallen creatures will be saved
Except these Matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

You preach a false Gospel..
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,284 times
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Default aionios NEVER means everlsating

READERS WILL DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES

Strongs is not useless for looking up KJV words.
But Strongs is useless for finding out the literal definition of Greek words.

So, appealing to Strongs is useless. Strongs merely records how words were translated into the KJV.

You must use Youngs to find the literal meaning of words.

What Jesus really taught about "hell."
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html


Fortunately, the Bible truth that God will eventually transform all evil and suffering into something better for everyone that it temporarily prevailed because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurection, through the power in the blood of His cross, first for the the first fruits of election (the remnant chosen by grace out of each generation), then for all of the rest of the fallen creatures later on, infinitely SUPERCEEDS your sadistic theology.

http://www.godfire.net/eby/allinall.html

If Jesus had meant to say everlasting He would have used aidios which was used by the Greek Jews of Jesus time to mean everlasting.

But Jesus used aionios (not aidios) and aionios NEVER means everlasting.

All that doting about the meaning of words is worthless.. Jesus plainly says age-during punishment and age-during life.

Believers do receive aionion life. But if this is all that God promised, there would be no assurance of life beyond the eons. However, at the end of the eons God abolishes death from His universe (I Cor. 15:26). This is accomplished by imparting the resurrection life of Christ to all who have not previously received it. Aionion life assures one of life up to that point. Beyond that, death is impossible. Furthermore believers are made immortal when the Lord returns (I Cor. 15:50-57). When one has been made immortal, death is impossible.

How Eternity Slipped Into Christian Theology
Whence Eternity? How Eternity Slipped In by Alexander Thomson

For aionios, or any combination thereof, to mean "eternal" its noun form MUST mean eternal. It doesn’t. It is impossible for the adjective aionios to mean eternal. Aionios is an adjective. Just as the function of "American" (adj.) is to inform us of that which pertains to America (it is never greater than "America") thus also the function of "aionios" (adj) is to inform us of that which pertains to the eon(s). It is never greater than the eons. No aion is eternal. Therefore it is impossible for that which pertains to the eons to be eternal. See
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

A common argument is that the subject matter changes aion from meaning a long period of time to eternal. This is simply not true.
There are many places in the Bible where the translation of aion as eternal or everlasting makes no sense at all. But there are no places in the Bible where the translation of aion as a limited period of time does not make perfect sense.
Comparative Concordance of how the Greek words aion and aionios are translated in various Bible translations

QUESTION ONE:
If aionion NEVER means eternal, won’t the life of God come to an end?

ANSWER:
Of course God is eternal, but that is not what the use of the word aionios is saying about Him. God is the God of the eons.
• THE EONS HAVE A BEGINNING
Literal Translation versus / King James Version

Heb.1:2 God made the eons / God made the worlds
I Cor. 2:7 before the eons / before the world
2Tim.1:9 before eonian times / before the world began
• THE EONS END, INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY
Heb. 9:26 the end of the eons / the end of the world
1 Cor. 10:11 the ends of the eons / the ends of the world
Matt. 24:3 the end of the eon / the end of the world
• HOW MANY EONS ARE THERE?
Col.1:26 hid from eons Past / hid from ages
Lu. 20:34 this eon Present / this world
Eph. 2:7 eons to come Future / ages to come
A minimum of five eons indicated
• THE PURPOSE OF THE EONS
• Eph.3:8-11 purpose of the eons / eternal purpose
Eph. 1:9-1l; PhiI.2:9-l1; Col.1:l5-21; I Cor. 15:20-28

QUESTION TWO:
If aionion NEVER means eternal, won’t the life of the believer come to an end since the word is applied to both the life of the believer, and the punishment of the non-believer?

ANSWER:
While the believer is enjoying aionion life, the unbeliever will experience kolasis aionion Matthew 25:46 (which means age-during corrective chastisement).
Chapter Eleven

Believers do receive aionion life. But if this is all that God promised, there would be no assurance of life beyond the eons. However, at the end of the eons God abolishes death from His universe (I Cor. 15:26). This is accomplished by imparting the resurrection life of Christ to all who have not previously received it. Aionion life assures one of life up to that point. Beyond that, death is impossible. Furthermore believers are made immortal when the Lord returns (I Cor. 15:50-57). When one has been made immortal, death is impossible.

CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS An Analytical Study of Words
(especially see the quotes from the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY (OLAM and AIONIOS) STEVENSON
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study

There is a Greek word that Young translates eternal and that is "aidios" as in Romans 1:20, “eternal power and Godhead.” It can mean eternal unless it is limited by a qualifying phrase.
See Young’s literal translation of the Bible.
It compares with the Hebrew word qedem in Deut. 33:27 which should read
“The eternal (qedem) God is my refuge, and underneath are the age-during (olam) arms. (see Young's literal translation)
The Hebrew word olam compares with the Greek word aionios.
Both of them refer to a limited period of time.

The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment. Here is the proof
HISTORY OF OPINIONS
and
The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment
and
Chapter 3 - Origin of Endless Punishment

Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of his disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which his contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? He never adopted the language of his day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation.

If Jesus had wanted to convey the idea of “eternal” He would have used aidios, which was understood to mean eternal by Jesus' contemporaries.
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" also see the following:
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”
and
All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinite Duration, Part One
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Two
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three
also see:
biblical studies: The Greek Word Aiõn
biblical studies: SCRIPTURE TRANSLATION PRINCIPLES
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,284 times
Reputation: 259
Default Chart of god’s plan for the ages of time

Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
eternal times

in

Romans 16:25 (they had an end)

2 Timothy 1:9 (they had a beginning)

Titus 1:2 (again a beginning)

Strongs definition of aiônios is not true to New Testament use

in Philemon 15 it seems to mean for lifetime

you might want to read this threads:

Greek EIS TON AIOoNA - what does it mean?

my letter to CARM run by Matt Slick

conservative Prof. Stroeter on the subject of everlasting punishment
Thank you for the good links sven.

No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,284 times
Reputation: 259
Default Why no answer beloved 57?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Here's another scripture for you .

12Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us

We are called to live good lives among the pagans , if you are hating them how can you justify yourself in the light of this scripture ?.
beloved 57, you never did answer pcamps.
Would you like to do it now?
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:05 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,390,261 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
beloved 57, you never did answer pcamps.
Would you like to do it now?
his question doesnt make sense..A person lives Godly when they hate them who hate God..david was a Godly Man ps 139:




20For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Thats Godly behaviour..
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:07 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,390,261 times
Reputation: 48
rodg says:

Quote:
aionios NEVER means everlsating
The scripture says Matt 25:

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The word is:

without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:56 AM
 
320 posts, read 449,200 times
Reputation: 53
Is this your full armor! "just your sword of this scripture"

Wheres your helmet of Salvation your Breast Plate of Righteousness your Shield of Faith, your Belt of truth and Sandles for Readiness for Peace! are you half dressed!

grace and peace!
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:42 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,284 times
Reputation: 259
Default Everyone hates god until ..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
his question doesnt make sense..A person lives Godly when they hate them who hate God..david was a Godly Man ps 139:

20For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Thats Godly behaviour..
EVERYONE HATES GOD UNTIL GOD LAYS HOLD ON THEM BY HIS GRACE AND REVEALS TO THEM WHAT HE IS REALLY LIKE
God is Love: God Is Love! *The Power of God's Love;*Love Your Enemies! Knowing The Real Jesus

AND SOONER OR LATER GOD WILL DO THAT FOR EVERY FALLEN CREATURE
God's Plan Of The Ages; The Purpose Of God In This Age; Redemption In Two Parts; As In Adam - So In Christ; Every Man In His Own Order; All Things In Subjection; God All In All
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:59 AM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,438,779 times
Reputation: 474
Hell is eternal (without end). To say otherwise is to belittle what Christ did on the cross, and to deny God's ability to be a just God.

God's love saved man. Because God is creator he can judge. Because God is without beginning or end his Judgements are eternal. How can God go back on his judgements? That would make him unjust. Which he is not.

It does not matter how you interpret the word everlasting. It means forever. That is the context. That is in line with God's character.
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