What About Hell? (tradition, Mormon, beliefs, missionary)

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

SOME INFORMATION THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL TO ME

No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.

copy and paste into Google
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE

and

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

and

TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY

If you cannot love an eternal torment god, did you know this?

For the first 500 years of the Christian church, universal salvation was the prevailing doctrine of a large majority of the Christian church. To find the evidence that this is so, copy and paste into Google
These online books also explain why and how this changed.
Copy and paste into Google
History of opinions on the scriptural doctrine
or
The Church Fathers Testify To The Ultimate Triumph Of Jesus Christ
or
books prevailing
or
origin and history of the doctrine
or

Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present some of the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.

The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.” And they were reading the Bible in its original language.

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

If you cannot love an eternal torment god, did you know this?

For the first 500 years of the Christian church, universal salvation was the prevailing doctrine of a large majority of the Christian church. To find the evidence that this is so, copy and paste into Google
These online books also explain why and how this changed.
Copy and paste into Google
History of opinions on the scriptural doctrine
or
The Church Fathers Testify To The Ultimate Triumph Of Jesus Christ
or
books prevailing
or
origin and history of the doctrine
or

Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present some of the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.

The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.” And they were reading the Bible in its original language.

THE WRITINGS OF DOZENS OF TEACHERS OF CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
Copy and paste into Google
GOD’S TRUTH FOR TODAY LIBRARY

also

Copy and paste into Google

Christian Universalism: Universalist Thought Through Church History

to find a list of well known Christian church leaders who believed and taught Biblical universalism.
Including a separate list of famous people embracing Christian universalism.

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

ANYONE IS WELCOME TO BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY WANT TO ABOUT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES

I posted on your forum in case there was a member or surfer or lurker who might benefit from the same info that was such a help to me.

IMHO It is totally insane to think that anyone will PREFER to suffer forever rather than eventually reach out for the salvation that Jesus has provided for all by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross.
This was the thinking that caused my twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 (I'm 70 now)

I was SO GLAD to learn about the following information.

THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT

The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always ends with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve. Copy and paste into Google
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS

If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.

But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.

ON THE BASIS OF HAVING STUDIED THE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO YOU CHOOSE ONE

Choose to believe that the Bible teaches that God will sustain people alive in an inescapable state of eternal suffering.
Or
Choose to believe that God will annihilate (cause them to cease to exist) anyone who does not become a Christian before they die.
Or
Choose to believe what the following expositors reveal about what the Bible teaches.
Copy and paste into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
Or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
Or
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
Or
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
Or
Just What Do You Mean By The Word DESTRUCTION?

I myself, along with many others with whom I am acquainted, simply cannot love a god who would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of eternal suffering (Arminian), or suffer forever just because they were born into the human race (Calvinist). Neither can we love a god who would snuff us out of existence just because we didn’t hear about Jesus before we died.

But we CAN love a god Who, because of His Son’s death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, will sooner or later save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved. That’s the God that the above expositors see in the Bible.
And that’s the God to Whom I joyously yield my heart in complete and total abandonment.

SO FOR US THE CHOICE IS EASY

How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown 1966-78
I’m 70 years old now

I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

Copy and paste into Google any of the following titles.

0. ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin
(recently published)
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
4. THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
18. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew jukes
19. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – George Hawtin
20. THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES - Eby

SATAN’S SALVATION ETCETERA - Grace super-exceeding!!!

Copy and paste into Google
THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley

It would have been easy for God to impress upon Satan that it would not temporarily be in his best interest to choose evil, but God didn’t do that because He had (has) an eonian plan to use the temporary existence of evil and suffering to teach lessons. Then at the consummation of God’s plan for the ages of time God will eradicate evil and suffering from existence.
Copy and paste into Google
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE

Since all of creation is in the Son of God’s love, through Whom God delights to reconcile all, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens, Col. 1:20, there is no more reason to suppose that Satan (and Judas and Hitler and Stalin) are not included therein than that any other creature is not included therein.

Therefore, it must be that that notable creature who had rightly long been termed “the Adversary,” is very much included in the reconciliation of the universe, at which time this title (“Adversary” or “Satan”) necessarily will no longer apply, since he will be reconciled and be at peace.

A time is coming when Satan himself, the instigator of human opposition and dissension will be beneath our feet. Rom. 16:20.
Now he dominates the actions of many a saint. But later his place and power will be taken from him and we will be above him, able to subdue and control the one who, next to our flesh, was the cause of most of our miseries.

Just as the enemies of Christ will figuratively find themselves a footstool for His feet, so will the greatest of all our enemies be placed beneath our power.

But best of all, we will not retaliate. We will not use our authority to further alienate and estrange Satan from God or from ourselves. We, to whom conciliation was first presented, will be conciliatory to all, and be able to bring back all our enemies into the circle of friendship and conciliation with God.

Doubtless due to Satan’s machinations, we cannot now even bring about peace among ourselves. But then all our own differences will have been dissolved, and we will be able to bring it to our erstwhile enemy in the spirit world, the Adversary himself.

Satan is an enemy of God, and must be included among the enemies reconciled to God by the blood of Christ's cross, one of those "in heaven." Since death is the last enemy, then Satan must be reconciled to God prior to the destruction of death, and the subsequent emptying of death, and the presentation of the whole reconciled universe to God, when God becomes All in all.

Copy and paste into Google
RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS

C.S. Lewis wrote, “The greatest surprise for Satan will occur when he learns that he has been perfectly doing the will of God all along.”

Personally I think the greatest demonstration of God’s grace in action among the celestials will be when Satan bows in humble submission and love in front of His Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
Copy and paste into Google
tentmaker books chapter eleven

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
Copy and paste into Google
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS
and
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

I think that everyone who needs it will experience just the right amount of what the Bible calls "kolasis aionian" which means "age-during corrective chastisement."

Copy and paste into Google
THE LAKE OF FIRE EBY

NO ONE IS BEYOND THE REACH OF GOD'S GRACE WHICH IS ABLE AND DETERMINED TO SUCCESSFULLY INFLUENCE THE MOST STUBBORN OF WILLS AND SOONER OR LATER WILL NOT FAIL TO DO SO.

We universal reconciliationists believe that because of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the power in the blood of His cross, God will eventually transform all suffering into something better that it happened for everyone, and when evil and suffering has served God’s eonian purpose, God will eradicate them both from existence.

Copy and paste into Google
CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
(online reading)

[pcamps]

Do any of you who believe in eternal torment believe Jesus ever paid a visit there ?

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by pcamps

Do any of you who believe in eternal torment believe Jesus ever paid a visit there ?

Welcome pcamps! I was getting lonely on this thread.

I don't believe in eternal torment, but I wonder if 1Peter 3:18-20 answers your question?

If so, does anyone think that Jesus preached a mocking "too bad for you it's too late now" kind of sermon to the spirits in prison?

I sure don't!!

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

Welcome pcamps! I was getting lonely on this thread.

I don't believe in eternal torment, but I wonder if 1Peter 3:18-20 answers your question?

If so, does anyone think that Jesus preached a mocking "too bad for you it's too late now" kind of sermon to the spirits in prison?

I sure don't!!

The idea that one can find salvation only during this life time is an unscriptural myth.
After death comes the judgment, yes, but that judgment will result in kolasis aionion which means age-during corrective chastisement for those who need it.
See what the Greek scholars say about that.
Copy and paste into Google
tentmaker books chapter eleven

Kolasis aionion doesn't save. Only Jesus saves. But it will condition the rebellious sinner to sooner or later reach out for the salvation that Jesus has provided by having them temporarily experience the consequences of their rebellion.

Unlike humans with their so very limited desire and ability to actually "reform" criminals in a reformatory, God, the "Judge," has no limit to the scope of both His DESIRE (born of the fact that He IS love personified not just loving), and His ABILITY to actually achieve reformation in the heart of the sinner because of what Christ accomplished for all by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross.

I believe that God the "Judge," has the desire, the ability, and the determination, to sooner or later, successfully save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, INCLUDING THEIR STUBBORN WILL.

This is the kind of God that we universal transformationists see in a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible.

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

THE WRITINGS OF DOZENS OF TEACHERS OF CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
Copy and paste into Google
GOD’S TRUTH FOR TODAY LIBRARY

also

Copy and paste into Google

Christian Universalism: Universalist Thought Through Church History

to find a list of well known Christian church leaders who believed and taught Biblical universalism.
Including a separate list of famous people embracing Christian universalism.

If you Google up the front page of
GOD'S TRUTH FOR TODAY
you can access even more inspirational writings by Christian Biblical Universalists by clicking on
IN THE GARDEN

[legoman]

Thanks for all the links Rodger. Some I have seen before, some I haven't. I will check them out!

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by legoman

Thanks for all the links Rodger. Some I have seen before, some I haven't. I will check them out!

My favorite Bible verse.

“Cast all your care upon Him (Jesus), for He cares for you. 1Peter 5:7

My favorite quote outside of the Bible.

“God’s purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God’s age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep.”
Dr. Leslie Weatherhead

My website.
Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt
A website for those who suffer unbearable emotional distress over the idea that God lets anyone suffer forever. It contains my testimony, my son’s tribute, many links, many writings, two forums, a guest book, a chart, and a web ring.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

My favorite Bible verse.

“Cast all your care upon Him (Jesus), for He cares for you. 1Peter 5:7

My favorite quote outside of the Bible.

“God’s purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God’s age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep.”
Dr. Leslie Weatherhead

My website.
Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt
A website for those who suffer unbearable emotional distress over the idea that God lets anyone suffer forever. It contains my testimony, my son’s tribute, many links, many writings, two forums, a guest book, a chart, and a web ring.

Rodger thanks for sharing please keep doing so , you are a blessing.