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Old 09-04-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,384,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by convex20899 View Post
It was the schoolboy who said, “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.”
What we can confidently believe is so concering "hell"

God's enemies were conciliated to God through the death of His son (Rom. 5:10).

God conciliates us to Himself through Christ Who died for the sake of all (2Cor. 5:14&18).

Instead of "eternal hell," ultimately all will enjoy the blessing of reconciliation which is the peace that has been secured by means of the death on the cross of the Son of God's love (Col. 1:20).

Sooner or later, God will defeat all of His enmies by changing them into His friends.
Reconciliation: Man - Not God - Is Reconciled; Reconciling All Things; The Ministry Of Reconciliation
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,384,411 times
Reputation: 259
Default Fodder for a "real conversation"

Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Rodger is never interested in having a real conversation with anyone,
FODDER FOR A "REAL CONVERSATION"

We all need peace toward God.

If we suppose that such peace rests on something we have to do, even on our faith, it will elude us.

But to see that everyone's peace toward God is settled through the death of God's Son, and faith that this is so will sooner or later be granted to all fallen creatures, will be a continuing source of peace as we live in a world where we are constantly bombarded with uncertainties.
biblical studies: Be Conciliated To God
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Default The god of the ages

Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post

Isn't "everlasting" another name for God, as in "God's punishment"?
Of course God is "everlasting," but that is not what the use of the word "aionios" is saying about Him.

In the first three chapters of Ephesians, (a key book regarding God’s plan for man relative to the fullness of the times) aion is used seven times.
And out of those seven, the KJV has chosen five different English words (“ages,” “course,” “end,” “eternal,” and “world.”) to translate this one word.

And to add to this confusion, it translates the Greek word genea (generation), a totally different word, twice as “ages.”

Talk about confusion compounded!

Is it any wonder the church has been blinded from God’s truth about the purpose of His judgments and His eonian plan to save all fallen creatures?!

Simply put, the Scriptures do not take up the philosophical concept of eternity, but rather speak of eons and that which pertains to them.
Of course God’s glory exceeds the eons, but His glory is reflected by His Son during the eons as they are presented in Scripture.
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,384,411 times
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Default Kolasis aionion

Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Your "corrective chastisement" appears to be similar to the Catholic concept of "Purgatory" and the Mormons' "Spirit Prison" both temporary.
I'm just sticking with what the Bible actually says in its original language.
The fact that Catholics and Mormons believe in a similar concept doesn't make it erroneous.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
Chapter Eleven
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:41 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,078,454 times
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I have a question for you Rodger. Why do people want to believe in an eternal hell?
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,384,411 times
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Default What if we Christian Biblical Universalist are wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I have a question for you Rodger. Why do people want to believe in an eternal hell?
I don't know legoman why people want to believe in an eternal hell
I frequently wonder about that myself.

Maybe they have a sick sadistic streak in their personality that causes them to not want to investigate the Biblical evidence in support of universal salvation.
eg: Savior of the World Series

I do know that many are taught that to even consider the possibility that the Bible does not teach eternal hell might result in them going to eternal hell too, since they have been taught that that is what is going to happen to anyone who rejects the KJV (and similar) versions of the word of God.

It's as if the doctrine of eternal hell is their savior, and not Jesus, because most of them with whom I am acquainted think that belief in eternal hell is necessary for salvation, even though URs like you and me are actually trusting in Jesus for our salvation.

Here is a good link on that subject
WHAT IF WE CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISTS ARE WRONG?
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Appendix5.html

Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-04-2009 at 04:50 PM.. Reason: wrong link
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,384,411 times
Reputation: 259
An interesting observation:

Many who start their Christian lives as eternal tormentors change their mind and become Christian Biblical Universalists after they examine the evidence that is available.

But I have never heard of anyone changing their mind and embracing eternal hell theology after they have examined the Biblical evidence proving universalism.

Think about that!

Two good links proving Christian Biblical Universalism are
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
Savior of the World Series
And
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
absolute assurance in jesus christ

Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-04-2009 at 05:11 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,384,411 times
Reputation: 259
Default Eternal torment blasphemes god's character

Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
You won't persuade me that your interpretations of scripture are more valid than what I wrote in my post
Eternal torment either deifies the devil or transforms God Himself into a fiend.

Abraham Lincoln said to the eternal torment evangelist, "Your god is my devil!"

URs like legoman and I cannot understand why people (like yourself) would not want to thoroughly investigate the many arguments about why we Christian Biblical Universalists believe the way that we do.

A link to a great introductory series to ultimate reconciliation.
J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic.
Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universalism from a solid biblical perspective.
Kingdom Bible Studies: J. Preston Eby, Kingdom of God; Saviour of The World

Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-04-2009 at 06:01 PM.. Reason: addition
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Old 09-05-2009, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,384,411 times
Reputation: 259
Default Why hell will not be endless

Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
The non elect will be enduring eternal punishment and torment..
WHY HELL WILL NOT BE ENDLESS

On the basis of the death of His Son for His enemies
God has conciliated the world to Himself (Rom. 5:10; 2Cor. 5:19),
and ultimately, on this same basis of the blood of Christ's cross,
all fallen creatures will be reconciled to Him (Col.1:20).
biblical studies: The Dais - Chapter Twelve

First the firstfruits of election chosen by grace out of each generation will be saved. Then the non-elect will be saved after the great white throne judgment.
God's Plan Of The Ages; The Purpose Of God In This Age; Redemption In Two Parts; As In Adam - So In Christ; Every Man In His Own Order; All Things In Subjection; God All In All

Then even all of the fallen angels will be saved too.
Reconciliation in the Heavens
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Old 09-05-2009, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,384,411 times
Reputation: 259
Default The end of hell - the basis of our assurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
keep rejecting the Truth, you have no choice..
THE TRUTH THAT CONSTRAINS ME TO BELIEVE IT

THE END OF HELL - THE BASIS OF OUR ASSURANCE

What is the basis of our assurance that sooner or later God will save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved
including their stubborn will?

The basis is our assurance is that God is faithfull to His word.

That He is so powerful that He can and will do everything He has promised to do.

That He is so wise that He can work everything out exactly as He has declared.

That He is Love in essence and will not rest until He achieves the full expression of His love that rests on His giving up of His Son to the death of the cross.
Understanding Universal Salvation Part One
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