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Unread 09-10-2009, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,350,012 times
Reputation: 216
Default What if we universal reconciliationists are wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Rodger, I know you mentioned somewhere in your bio that you suffered a mental breakdown for seven years or so over worrying about the eternal damnation of your soul. It seems that this traumatic event in your life most probably explains the single-minded pursuit you've engaged yourself in attempting to bring universalism to all who would listen--1400+ posts on one topic--I've never seen such zeal demonstrated by any member on any board, let alone this board. I'm curious and I have no ax to grind one way or the other because I've divorced myself completely on the debate of which is right, but do you ever worry that in the event it turns out in eternity that you were on the wrong side that you would be responsible for the damnation of hundreds, possibly thousands of souls who listened to you in this rather "long' thread? That teachers of doctrine will be held to a much higher standard of judgment by God than ordinary Christians would stop me dead in my tracks with fear. No offense intended, believe me, but have you explored the possibility that you're still suffering from the effects of the breakdown and this has led you on this extreme one-man effort to bring universalism to every living Christian out of a sense of revenge against the doctrine that hurt you so much? It's worth checking out. Very deep stuff, especially when you've had a mental breakdown as a result of a particular dogma.
My response to your threat of future judgment for me can best be expressed by the response by A.E. Knoch who probably was the best known Christian Biblical Universalist of the last century to a similar threat.

A critic said "Mr. Knoch and his colleagues will yet have to answer to God for so defiantly opposing the plain teachings of God's holy word."

In reply A.E. Knoch wrote:

"Let me assure our brother, beloved by the Lord, that we fully expect to answer to God for all our acts, and will rejoice to see all that is not of God destroyed by the fiery test of that day. But such threats do not alarm us in the least. We know a God of transcendent grace. It is only natural for one who thinks Him capable of tormenting His own creatures eternally, to seek to follow His example, and torture His servants here and now. Indeed, it would be strange if it were not so.

The character of the God you worship will determine your ways and your words. We trust it will be so with us also, for we would delight to be like Him. Hence, we do not threaten you with His wrath, but commend you to His grace.

Perhaps no sin can be so great as to distort His words and defame His character. But His grace is superbly sufficient, His love is lavish in its long-suffering. It never lapses, but looks longingly for the reconciliation which is the justification and crown of all His ways with His creatures.

So, as we close with the absolute certainty of a reconciliation between us, we anticipate it on our part and throw all enmity aside. We are conciliated no matter what you do. We recall with joy and satisfaction the great truth that, by God's grace, it is impossible for you to enter into condemnation, no matter how much you may offend Him (Rom.8:1) and the still greater truth that we are saved for grace (Eph.2:8).

While your words and ways have seemed to us to be offensively unlike His, this only gives greater ground for grace. This of itself justifies them, for grace must have a foil.

We close, then, with a prayer for such an outpouring of His grace on your own head as will force you to feel the affection which is found in Him for all the creatures of His hand and heart." A.E. Knoch

What if we universal reconciliationists are wrong?

SEVERAL GOOD ANSWERS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Appendix5.html
Why Preach If Everyone Gets Saved?
The Glory Road
"How Can you Be Right and the Whole Church Be Wrong?"
absolute assurance in jesus christ
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved
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Unread 09-10-2009, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,350,012 times
Reputation: 216
Default God's goal includes the end of hell

GOD'S GOAL INCLUDES THE END OF HELL

The usual way is to view God's goal in the darkness of the way to its accomplishment.

We go back to passages which deal with judgments,
and allow them to throw their dark shadows across God's consummation.
We should believe that God will justify all mankind (Rom. 5:18),
and view the previous judgments in the light of this final achievement.

We bring up passage which tell of death,
to darken God's declaration that it will be abolished.
We should believe that God will make death inoperative,
and view the previous passages in this glorious light.

We turn to texts which prove that unbelievers will be lost or destroyed,
and with these passages dim the great declaration
that God wills the salvation of all.
We should illumine them with the later and higher revelation.

We find God's enemies in the fiery lake which seems to be the close of revelation,
and misuse this fact to deny God's declaration that all fallen creatures will be reconciled (Col. 1:20).
We should not take one to destroy the other, but believe both,
for reconciliation follows estrangement, and it alone accord with God's final goal.

Reconciliation: Man - Not God - Is Reconciled; Reconciling All Things; The Ministry Of Reconciliation

Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-10-2009 at 03:52 PM.. Reason: spacing
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Unread 09-10-2009, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,350,012 times
Reputation: 216
Default GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL 1Cor. 15:28

Most delightful is it to contemplate that distant day when God will be All in all.
Every fallen creature will then be close to God's heart.

Then, God will not occupy a small, or even a large fraction of our lives.
God will be everything to everyone.

There will be nothing in anyone's experience that will not be divine.

Every occurance, each incident, large or small, important or trivial,
will come to us consciously as a gratuity given by God,
and will bring a constant response of adoring worship from everyone.
God's Plan Of The Ages; The Purpose Of God In This Age; Redemption In Two Parts; As In Adam - So In Christ; Every Man In His Own Order; All Things In Subjection; God All In All

Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-10-2009 at 05:50 PM.. Reason: spacing
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Unread 09-11-2009, 04:49 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,350,012 times
Reputation: 216
Default Satan's salvation from hell

SATAN'S SALVATION FROM HELL

In the experience of the cross, above all else in Scripture,
we can see that Satan can only be an instrument in God's hands.
Even Satan's greatest acts of opposition only further God's purposes.

It is not without prophetic significance that Jesus told Satan,
"The Lord your God shall you be worshipping,
and to Him only shall you be offering divine service (Matt. 4:10).

This utterance from the Word of God, handled authoritively by Jesus,
spells the final doom of Satan as an adversary, but retains him
as a creature who will ultimately love and worship God.
Thus will the deity be glorified.
Reconciliation in the Heavens
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Unread 09-11-2009, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,350,012 times
Reputation: 216
Default Love conquers hell

LOVE CONQUERS HELL

God is Love, and all of His fallen creatures are dear to Him.
Is it not striking that He does not seem to even try to
express His affection until they are lost?

Whom does God love?
He undoubtedly loves all.

Whom does He say that He loves?
God loves the world, and sinners, and His enemies,
and those who are lost.

It takes destruction to open the sluice gates of divine feelings.
This it is which makes contact between God's love and His creature's hearts.
God is Love: God Is Love! *The Power of God's Love;*Love Your Enemies! Knowing The Real Jesus
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Unread 03-03-2010, 08:10 PM
 
1 posts, read 426 times
Reputation: 10
Hell doesn't exist. Gehenna was a garbage dump on the out skirts of Jerusalem. The fire in the dump never went out as this fire was used to consume all the garbage of Jerusalem. 250,00 Jews were burned there in 70 A.D. after the Roman destruction of the city.
This was the place mistranslated hell and the place Jeus warned the Jews about in the Gospel. They all knew what he was talking about. To bad most Christians are so ignorant of this fact.

Roger relax. God's in control.

Last edited by MrSocko; 03-03-2010 at 09:16 PM..
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Unread 04-15-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: San Jacinto
46 posts, read 28,429 times
Reputation: 29
Default God Himself does all these things... according to the Bible.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Ecc 7:13 Consider the work of God: for who can make straight, which he hath made crooked

Amos 3:6 “…shall there be EVIL in a city, and the Lord has not done it?”

Job 2:10 Yet he said to her, As some decadent woman speaks are you speaking. Indeed should we receive good from the One, Elohim, and should we not receive evil? In all this, Job did not sin with his lips.
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