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Old 07-10-2009, 09:14 PM
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Default La La Land

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
SALVATION OUT OF THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED – SOME THROUGH THE FIRE – BUT ALL THROUGH THE BLOOD

Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
Chapter Eleven
It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

According to the Bible everyone is going to heaven - some through the fire, but all through the blood.
The Law of Circularity

We should desire to experience the lake of fire if God sees that is what we need. That's how much we can relax in the arms of God's love.

It is God’s decretive will (that which MUST occur) that everyone violates His preceptive will (that which they OUGHT to do) as much as they actually do because each person is being fitted into God’s master plan in a way that necessitates their own individual experience with sin, evil and suffering. Then when God consummates His plan for the ages of time He will eradicate sin and suffering from existence after everyone has learned all that God wants them to learn from its temporary existence.
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

The process of salvation will be completed for the firstfruits of election, (the remnant chosen by grace), after the first resurrection. The process of salvation will be completed for the non-elect after the great white throne judgment. For some, it will include an experience in the lake of fire.

But everyone will be saved out of the lake of fire which is the second death.

You may ask, “What scriptural evidence is there of being saved out of the lake of fire which is the second death?"

There actually is much evidence.

Although the book of Revelation is the last book placed in the Bible, it is not the final revelation of what God is going to do with humanity. The apostle Paul saw way beyond John.
Col.1:25 of which I became a dispenser, in accord with the administration of God, which is granted to me for you, to complete the word of God.

There is much evidence that Paul did see way beyond John. For instance, in Revelation there are still kings reigning, and Christ is still reigning along with His followers. There are still sovereignties and powers in force throughout the book of revelation. So John did not see the day when all sovereignty, authority and power would be done away. Paul did. If you will look at 1Corinthians 15:24-28 Paul saw the day when all of these would be done away. He sees the day when "He should be nullifying all sovereignty, authority and power" (vs.24).

Paul sees the day when Christ will quit reigning (vs.25).

Paul sees the day when death (all death which includes the second death) will be abolished (vs.26). Please remember that death will be abolished **after** all the sovereignties, authorities and powers in Revelation have been nullified. Within the book of Revelation, death is still operational as are the afore mentioned powers.

So what is going to happen to all these people who are in death when death is abolished?
They will come forth vivified (made alive beyond the reach of death) (1Cor.15:22).
They will have their lives justified and will be constituted righteous:
Romans 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying.
Romans 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.

All will be reconciled to God (Col.1:20)

All will be headed up in Christ (Eph.1:10)

All will bow the knee in the name of Jesus and acclaim with their tongue that "Jesus Christ is Lord" to the glory of God, the Father (Phil.2:9-11).
And we know that anyone who acclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord, especially when it is to God's glory without any hypocrisy is saved for 1Corinthians 12:3 says so.

So there is proof that people will go to the second death **when ** the new earth comes. And there is proof that this is not the final goal God has for these people.

In summary then:
The lake of fire is the second death.
The apostle John did not see into the future as far as the apostle Paul.
How do I know this? and what ramifications does this have as to whether or not one gets out of the lake of fire...the second death? Plenty.
In the book of revelation Christ is still reigning; death is still operational; sovereignties, authorities and powers are still in force.
In 1Cor.15:22-28 Paul sees way beyond John's revelation.
He sees the day when Christ will quit reigning (1Cor.15:25).
He sees the day when all sovereignties, authorities and powers are nullified (1Cor.15:24).
He sees the day when death is abolished (1Cor.15:26) and all are then subjected to Christ then Christ is subjected to God and then God is All in all (1Cor.15:28).
So, yes, there is scripture which intimates that all in the lake of fire will come forth and God will be All in all.
Also in 1Cor.15:22 all are dying and in Christ shall all be vivified. So this happens after death for most.
Also in Romans 5:18,19 you have what happens to all mankind due to what Adam did which happens to the exact same all mankind due to what Christ did. But it does not happen to all at the exact same time.
Each in his own order.

Type into Google
The lake of fire Eby
The Lake of Fire
and
Reconciliation in the Heavens
and
Savior of the World Series

Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire which is the second death taught in the scriptures?

The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death Rev.20:14; 21:8. In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.

How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).

It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the, fifteen chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.

The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.

What do you suppose the lake that burns with fire and brimstone will do? It will burn off of mankind the stubborn will which is contrary to the Lord’s will. It will take that which the Lord subjected man to, death, and will burn its bonds off. The flames of fire will lick the lashes of cords that have bound men in rebellion and will dispose of those cords as one would burn refuse in a hot scorching fire. It is the rebellious will, maintained by ignorance that is burned. The same standard of burning happens to the Overcomer. They are baptized in the very same fire. The fire that constitutes the lake that burns with fire and brimstone and the fire upon the brow of the Overcomer are the very same kind of fire. In both cases, whether it be the Overcomer or the unrepentant sinner, the cords of ignorance as to the will of the Lord are burned off. Such is the ordination in fire, no one will escape it who needs it.
Your living in fairy tale land.. Matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:28 PM
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Default Chart of god’s plan for the ages of time

Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Your living in fairy tale land.. Matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Literally translated age-during fire.
See Young's literal translation.

No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:38 PM
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Default Hell , The Lake of Fire

Eternal Punishment , the final abode of the wicked, the seed of the serpent, this place is expressed in two different ways in scripture in the New Testament, Gehenna and the Lake of fire..

Lets look at Gehenna [ matt 23:15], this word is grecianized form of of the hebrew valley of hinnom, which was a deep gorge on the east of jerusalem..It was once used in connection with idolatry 2 chron 28 3 and jer 7:

31And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

later it became the place where the garbage of Jerusalem was cast and burned. Its flame was kept constantly alight [very auspicious] so as to consume the filth and trash thrown there..

This was a foreshadowing of the great garbage receptacle of the world..For Hell, just like other places and persons in the bible were types of other objects or persons more vile, like the king of tyre, in ezk 28, we know that what is recored there of that king has one more diabolical in view, so likewise, what is read of the valley symbolizes that which is far more awful..Hence, we cannot no more limit gehenna to the valley outside Jerusalem, than we should restrict the king of tyree, to a mere character in the past..
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:44 PM
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Default Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the 2nd death

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Literally translated age-during fire.
See Young's literal translation.

No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study
I am not arguing against the existence of the lake of fire which is the second death and the certainty that many will experience it.

I am arguing its duration and purpose as expounded in the above links.

Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-10-2009 at 10:00 PM.. Reason: addition
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:09 PM
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beloved57,

Can you read the verses you quote? If God absolutely never commanded it and He considered it an abomination to burn their children in temporal flames, how much more is His loathing for those Who teach it is His word that He would burn our sons and daughters in eternal flames?!

"And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart." (Jr 7:31)

"And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." (Jr 32:35)

You absolutely do NOT know God's heart or His mind!

And earlier in the same chapter it is written what is repeated several times throughout Scripture, even taught by Jesus:
Jeremiah 32:18-19...
18 ...the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,
19 Great in counsel, and mighty in work: for thine eyes are open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings:

So God will recompense EVERYONE according to their deeds! Consider the fact that there has never been a man who has commited into the universe permanent, never to be eradicated or corrected, sins that are infinite and neverending.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
beloved57,

Can you read the verses you quote? If God absolutely never commanded it and He considered it an abomination to burn their children in temporal flames, how much more is His loathing for those Who teach it is His word that He would burn our sons and daughters in eternal flames?!

"And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart." (Jr 7:31)

"And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." (Jr 32:35)

You absolutely do NOT know God's heart or His mind!

And earlier in the same chapter it is written what is repeated several times throughout Scripture, even taught by Jesus:
Jeremiah 32:18-19...
18 ...the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,
19 Great in counsel, and mighty in work: for thine eyes are open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings:

So God will recompense EVERYONE according to their deeds! Consider the fact that there has never been a man who has commited into the universe permanent, never to be eradicated or corrected, sins that are infinite and neverending.
your in lala land..
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
I am not arguing against the existence of the lake of fire which is the second death and the certainty that many will experience it.

I am arguing its duration and purpose as expounded in the above links.
All you are doing is teaching false doctrine, be prepared to give a account. to God..
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
All you are doing is teaching false doctrine, be prepared to give a account. to God..
Funny I was just thinking the same about you. But its all for God's purposes, and luckily for you all God's purposes are good.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:08 PM
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Funny I was just thinking the same about you
I know you was, but its me teaching the Truth and you a lie..
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:11 PM
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I know you was, but its me teaching the Truth and you a lie..
How old are you b57?
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