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Old 07-13-2009, 05:06 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,391,195 times
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Quote:
Now you are being silly!
Your position is just as much an "opinion" as anyone elses.
Thats where your wrong, God has called me to preach the Truth not opinions..
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:07 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,391,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study

matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:19 PM
 
Location: NC
14,882 posts, read 17,156,182 times
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Quote:
While the church has gotten used to thinking of God as Someone who was forced to design a grandiose punishment called Hell, and against His own will sends the majority of His creation there, this concept of a God "who did the best He could" is totally against the Scriptural view of a God who is absolutely sovereign, powerful, all-wise and all-victorious. He never had to come up with a plan B or C, for Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It is time to give Him the glory He deserves for our God is truly awesome and wonderful far beyond the limited, and man-centered views of Him


Do you ardently desire the salvation of all men?
Honest Questions and Answers about Hell

Thank you for the link, rodger. God bless.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:40 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,391,195 times
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Default The Wicked are doomed and thats final !

The doom of those who are cast into the Lake of fire is irrevocable ! Many things prove this..

Forgiveness of sins is limited to this life on earth..this is percieved from scripture:

matt 9:

But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

This implies, if you die without sins forgiven, then its as Jesus said:

jn 8:

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins

And for most cases, once dead, afterwards, the Judgment heb 9:

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Those who die in their sins, when christ returns and raises them from their graves, its to their Judgment of damnation:

Jn 5:

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



This fact that at the resurrection of the wicked, Jesus says its to damnation, squelches any hope of a reprieve of final damnation..this would be a perfect place for such a thing to be stated , right here at this point..

The fact that he is cast both body and soul into the lake of fire argue its finality..

matt 10:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


The fact that its called the second death denotes its hoplessness and the situation beyond remedy, the wicked is seperated from God forever..

rev 20:

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death

I know many false teachers deny this, but its the Word of Truth..



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Old 07-13-2009, 05:52 PM
 
Location: NC
14,882 posts, read 17,156,182 times
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Quote:
it will also help us if we understand that God’s purposes are not completed in this current age, but worked out in successive ages. (Eph. 2:7) The message of God’s saving work through Christ is glorious, and it is not limited to this lifetime as the orthodox church would have us believe. It is not in God’s plan “to save as many as He can before this life ends” only to throw the rest of His precious creation in the dumper for all eternity. Jesus did not pray for the world, but for those whom the Father gave Him (the disciples). (John 17) Those who are Calvinists will twist this prayer of Jesus to say that God only has intentions to save the elect, while the rest are reserved for never-ending punishment, but they make the same critical mistake that most of Christendom does in that they do not see that God’s purposes for mankind do not end with this life. Everything will be accomplished in GOD’S TIME, not ours. God’s purpose in this age is to bring a people to Himself (elect) in order to reach the non-elect in the ages to come. He is calling US in order to show forth His kindness to OTHERS in the ages to come. Once you see this truth, you will then understand why most people will never come to Christ in this age. This does not mean God has forsaken the many and given them up to suffer never-ending punishments. The mercy, love, and compassion of our God will never fail and the Good Shepherd will keep on seeking and saving until each and every last sheep (good and bad) is brought into the fold.

As in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
K Eckerty

Another great quote, rodger. Thanks!



which corresponds with


Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in *hope21. that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

*hope=elpis=expectation

God bless.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 1,006,256 times
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Part of the influence to keep people from seeing what you've been discussing, that the chosen now are priests for the rest of the world is because of the apostasy of the Church. Institutional Christianity has other mediators. They have created a special elite class of priests, pastors, etc. who perform for their enabling audiences rather than all those who have the Holy Spirit participating as the body of Christ under the headship of the leading of Jesus present in us. By creating an elite priesthood to the rest of the believers who are supposed to be the priests, they create a closed system. The people who should be ministering to the rest of the world are made into parasites that live instead off the performances of their other mediators.

There are many things this does to these people's doctrine. One is they think the "chosen" (electoi, transliterated: 'elect") are all of the people that there are being "saved" rather than that they are the one's meant to "save" the rest of the world. It's really been quite the Satanic coup! Like Isaiah said, "This is a people robbed and in warrens."
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:22 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,946,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Thats where your wrong, God has called me to preach the Truth not opinions..

Well, no one really thinks you intentionally lie, but that don't make you 100% right either.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,406,855 times
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Default "achilles heel"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
CORRECTLY TRANSLATED BIBLES

One of the important tools for believing that the Bible teaches universal
reconciliation is to use a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible.

Here are several. The ones on line you don't even have to pay for.
CORRECT TRANSLATIONS ONLINE

CONCORDANT About the Concordant Publishing Concern
Concordant Publishing; Concordant Version
YOUNG'S LITERAL Revised Young's Literal Translation (RYLT)

OTHER CORRECT TRANSLATIONS NOT ONLINE LISTED AT THE FOLLOWING THREE LINKS
An Analytical Study of Words - Undivded Version
Hell is Leaving the Bible Forever</b></font>
Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

Or, if the links don't work, copy and paste into Google any of the following three titles

Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

Chapter Ten - Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"

Hell is leaving the Bible forever

I think the Concordant Literal Translation is the most accurate.

Of the versions not online I like ROTHERHAM'S EMPHASIZED BIBLE the best.

Four scriptural expositions expounding UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION are found at
biblical studies: Torturing Doubts and Exultant Faith
biblical studies: Crucial Questions About Resurrection
Concordant Expositions (html format) - The Eons
Contending For The Faith -- A Response to Don Hewey's "Rebuttal" to Questions Without Answers (http://gtft.org/Library/condon/QuestionsWithoutAnswers.htm - broken link)

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinite Duration, Part One
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Two
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three
also see:
biblical studies: The Greek Word Aiõn
biblical studies: SCRIPTURE TRANSLATION PRINCIPLES
IMO, beloved57's "Achilles heel" is that he repeatedly quotes from interpretively translated Bibles rather than literally translated Bibles.
That is why, for me, his frequent threatenings ring hollow.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/co...ance_aion.html
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:56 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,391,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Well, no one really thinks you intentionally lie, but that don't make you 100% right either.
I dont care what anyone thinks, I am here preaching the Truth, not my opinion..when God calls a witness for the gospel, He does not say, now go a witness your opinion and Gods truth is a 100% right, even if it comes from a sinner like me..
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Naptowne, Alaska
15,603 posts, read 39,826,734 times
Reputation: 14890
The truth as you percieve it. And we believe whats true as we percieve it. Only difference is...nobody else is trying to cram it down your throat.
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