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Old 07-28-2009, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
3,773 posts, read 6,993,968 times
Reputation: 1923

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwtodd View Post
The only requirment to salvation is to be a sinner. All are sinners, therefore all are saved. PERIOD
That logic might work well in Euler circles,but you need more than that to attain Heaven or a requirement for salvation,there is definitely more to it.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:09 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 1,384,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
Hell is eternal just like Heaven is eternal,it is the people's choice.
Hell is eternal like Heaven, but its not the peoples choice, Its Gods choice on wether one is destined to Heaven or Hell..
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:21 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,459,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
No GOING to heaven for those who spread the lies that there is no eternal hell for those who reject the free gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

Let's just get the story straight for those who need to hear the truth. I mean seriously, Shana, how many times do we have to say that Jesus died for all, but not all will accept him? Don't you people have a life other than this board? I can come here at 3 am and 2 or 3 of you are here lurking to get in the last word....no matter what time of day or night.

I call that an organized cult.
Actually, the scriptures teach that every person God has ever created will worship him and sing his name, confessing Jesus as lord to the glory of the father in the fullness of time. Everything will be reconciled to God of things in heaven, of things in earth, and of things under the earth. Even though now you hate what we are saying, when it happens you too will then truly understand the riches of Gods glory, which is the abundance of his mercies. Now you call us false prophets and you damn us along with the rest of the world who do not believe the way that you do, but one day you will call every person brother and sister. Selah ...
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
3,773 posts, read 6,993,968 times
Reputation: 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Hell is eternal like Heaven, but its not the peoples choice, Its Gods choice on wether one is destined to Heaven or Hell..
He is the final judgement,but it is our choice to accept Him as our personal Saviour or choose to reject Him by putting trust in ourselves .
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:25 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,459,685 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Hell is eternal like Heaven, but its not the peoples choice, Its Gods choice on wether one is destined to Heaven or Hell..
The bible tells us that God will create a new heavens and a new earth. So no ... not even Heaven is eternal. Not to mention all things in the cosmos have a beginning, and therefor cannot be eternal. Hell and death will be swallowed up in victory according to the bible, so they are not eternal either. That is a false doctrine.

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Old 07-28-2009, 11:25 PM
 
Location: NC
11,653 posts, read 9,136,471 times
Reputation: 1274
Quote:
Actually, the scriptures teach that every person God has ever created will worship him and sing his name, confessing Jesus as lord to the glory of the father in the fullness of time. Everything will be reconciled to God of things in heaven, of things in earth, and of things under the earth. Even though now you hate what we are saying, when it happens you to will then truly understand the riches of Gods glory, which is the abundance of his mercies. Now you call us false prophets and you damn us along with the rest of the world who do not believe the way that you do, but one day you will call every person brother and sister. Selah ...
Yes, God bless.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:46 AM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 1,384,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The bible tells us that God will create a new heavens and a new earth. So no ... not even Heaven is eternal. Not to mention all things in the cosmos have a beginning, and therefor cannot be eternal. Hell and death will be swallowed up in victory according to the bible, so they are not eternal either. That is a false doctrine.

The devil and His angels and his seed will be going here forever : Matt 25:


41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:41 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,459,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
The devil and His angels and his seed will be going here forever : Matt 25:


41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Nope, wrong again. The word everlasting in those verses is the Greek word aion. It means age not everlasting. But thats a Good try ... Aionios Kolasis means age abiding correction in English not eternal punishment. Unfortunately false doctrine rules most modern bible translations.
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,001 posts, read 1,612,725 times
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Default Chart of godís plan for the ages of time

beloved57, just like you said to us, we think that you yourself are "grasping at air and your scripture quoting is meaningless" because you are quoting an interpretively translated Bible instead of a literally translated Bible.
That is the crux of the matter.

The Christians closest to the time of Jesus, for more than the first 500 years of Christianity believed the Bible teaches universal salvation, and they were reading it in its original language.

Had I not discovered an alternate point of view, I would right now be locked away in a mental hopital for the rest of my life because beloved57's perception of God caused me to have a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) over my inability to love his god.
I'm 70 years old now.
See the thread I started on this forum called THE TESTIMONY OF RODGER TUTT for my whole story.

IMO the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe in never ending suffering for anyone and not have a breakdown thinking about it. Personally I would rather live out my life as an agnostic rather than put my trust in any book that teaches that

No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of
diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

To find the truth one must use a literally translated Bible like Youngs, or Concordant, or Rotherhams, or Weymouths, or Wilsons, or Bullingers, or Clementsons, or Scarletts, instead of an interpretively translated Bible.

Matthew 25:46 should literally read "age-during corrective chastisement" (kolais aionion) not "everlasting punishment" like it does in interpretively translated Bibles.

While the elect are enjoying age-during life, the non-elect will experience age-during corrective chastisement.

BTW the Greek word aidios (not aionios) was used by Greek Jews as meaning eternal during the time of Jesus.
If Jesus had meant eternal He would have used aidios which was understood by Jesus' contemporaries as meaning eternal.

Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-29-2009 at 07:27 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,001 posts, read 1,612,725 times
Reputation: 219
Default God will refashion vessels of dishonor

During this lifetime I will find it impossible not to judge the character of a man who would rather put his trust in a book that supposedly consigns part of God's creation to inescapable suffering forever than consider another point of view.

My perception of people like beloved 57 is that they are vessels of grossest dishonor. My only consolation is that I see a God in the Bible Who will, after the resurrection, refashion all vessels of disnonor into vessels of honor both for His glory, and also for the benefit of the dishonorable vessel.
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