What About Hell? (traditions, preaching, sinned, Holy Spirit)

[ShanaBrown]

Hi ILNC,

Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.


God's good pleasure= eudokeo=to be well pleased, to think it good, not merely an understanding of what is good and right but stressing the willlingness and freedom of an intention or a resolve regarding what is good... (Hebrew-Greek Key Word Study Bible)

I believe that God will accomplish whatever He intends or resolves to do and if it was His intention to reconcile all to Himself, He will do this. In this verse, I see that in actuality this has already been done from God's perspective. God bless.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Hey Shanna I appreciate your sweet spirit when ever you discuss anything on here, you truly do show the love of Christ in your posts. And I agree with you that God will accomplish whatever He intends or resolves to do.

[ShanaBrown]

Thank you, ILNC. I appreciate your kind and gentle spirit also. Thank you for your patience. Must run and do some bills. God bless.

[CelticLady1]

Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal

Seriously, where is your scripture to back up your interpretation?. The whole bible is Jesus words. and if Jesus is all about LOVE, explain the part when Jesus comes back. IMO He doesn't sound ALL loving to me

(Revelation 19:15), speaking of Jesus, declares, "Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty."

Obviously, we are at cross purposes in our communication, but, let me try this one more time. Regardless of what Jesus may or may not do in the future, (although, like ShanaBrown, I don't believe in an eternal hell, either, although she is much better at explaining the why's and wherefore's, using scripture), I believe that the way that he dealt with sinners 2,000 years ago, is to be our example of how to deal with ourselves and others now. It serves no purpose to use such harsh language, (children of the devil, degenerate, horrible, wretched, etc.), when dealing with people. Jesus didn't use Puritanical methods, and I see no reason why we should, either. His harshest words were given to the religious people, those who thought they didn't need him, not to those who did know.

I believe most people do understand their shortcomings, (whether they admit to it, or not), and don't need their faces rubbed into it in order to make the point. We can choose to deal with ourselves and others the way Jesus would have done, (which is pretty well covered, scripturally, in the four Gospels), or we can choose to use Johnathan Edwards' method, telling folks how awful they are, and scaring the bejeebers out them, ("Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God"). Since he and all the others of like mind, were/are merely human, and no more divine than the rest of us, I believe it's better to take our cue from Jesus himself. We can be forthright, and speak truth, without getting ugly about it. I see nothing unscriptural in that.

Even Paul had the sense to understand what love is all about, when he penned the 13th chapter of Corinthians, (frankly, the best piece of writing he did, in my opinion. I believe that was inspired of God, no doubt).

There's an old saying that you can catch more flies with honey, than you can with vinegar. I think if more Christians demonstrated the love of Jesus, rather than legalism, wrath, hatefulness, and name-calling, they might see more of of the "wretched sinners" show more of an interest in Jesus, and isn't that what Christians want, ostensibly? For the better part of the church's existence it has used the Puritanical, harsh method, (with less-than satisfactory results, I might add), to scare people to Jesus. Perhaps it should start using Jesus' method, instead.

Jesus gave two great commandments. One was to love God, and the other was to love your neighbor, (Mark 12: 29-31). It's kind of hard to do either one, if we are busy condemning, and being ugly and hateful, and using harsh language.

In my younger days, I did a few things I'm not proud of. My aunt and uncle, (some of the best Christians I have ever had the pleasure of knowing), did not condone my behavior, but neither did they condemn me. They continued to love me, and they forgave me. Is this not the example set by Jesus? Is that not what Christians, to the best of their feeble ability, are supposed to be doing? On the other hand, my parents have been very harsh, condemning, hateful, and unforgiving. Guess who I have a relationship with?

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

I am not sure what you are asking Reformed Liberal. I believe that Adam died and is dead. Death is not an eternal state because Jesus overcame death when He rose from the grave. This is why it is described as sleeping. Death is temporary. If Jesus had not been raised from the dead we would all confined to eternal death, just like Paul speaks about in 1 Corinthians 15. I believe that we are face to face with the Lord when we are resurrected. Hope this clarifies what I was sharing. God bless.

We were talking about an eternal hell, so respectfully I have no clue what you are getting at. Are you saying, you don't believe in an eternal hell, if not why? and scripture to support

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by CelticLady1

Obviously, we are at cross purposes in our communication, but, let me try this one more time. Regardless of what Jesus may or may not do in the future, (although, like ShanaBrown, I don't believe in an eternal hell, either, although she is much better at explaining the why's and wherefore's, using scripture), I believe that the way that he dealt with sinners 2,000 years ago, is to be our example of how to deal with ourselves and others now. It serves no purpose to use such harsh language, (children of the devil, degenerate, horrible, wretched, etc.), when dealing with people. Jesus didn't use Puritanical methods, and I see no reason why we should, either. His harshest words were given to the religious people, those who thought they didn't need him, not to those who did know.

I believe most people do understand their shortcomings, (whether they admit to it, or not), and don't need their faces rubbed into it in order to make the point. We can choose to deal with ourselves and others the way Jesus would have done, (which is pretty well covered, scripturally, in the four Gospels), or we can choose to use Johnathan Edwards' method, telling folks how awful they are, and scaring the bejeebers out them, ("Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God"). Since he and all the others of like mind, were/are merely human, and no more divine than the rest of us, I believe it's better to take our cue from Jesus himself. We can be forthright, and speak truth, without getting ugly about it. I see nothing unscriptural in that.

Even Paul had the sense to understand what love is all about, when he penned the 13th chapter of Corinthians, (frankly, the best piece of writing he did, in my opinion. I believe that was inspired of God, no doubt).

There's an old saying that you can catch more flies with honey, than you can with vinegar. I think if more Christians demonstrated the love of Jesus, rather than legalism, wrath, hatefulness, and name-calling, they might see more of of the "wretched sinners" show more of an interest in Jesus, and isn't that what Christians want, ostensibly? For the better part of the church's existence it has used the Puritanical, harsh method, (with less-than satisfactory results, I might add), to scare people to Jesus. Perhaps it should start using Jesus' method, instead.

Jesus gave two great commandments. One was to love God, and the other was to love your neighbor, (Mark 12: 29-31). It's kind of hard to do either one, if we are busy condemning, and being ugly and hateful, and using harsh language.

In my younger days, I did a few things I'm not proud of. My aunt and uncle, (some of the best Christians I have ever had the pleasure of knowing), did not condone my behavior, but neither did they condemn me. They continued to love me, and they forgave me. Is this not the example set by Jesus? Is that not what Christians, to the best of their feeble ability, are supposed to be doing? On the other hand, my parents have been very harsh, condemning, hateful, and unforgiving. Guess who I have a relationship with?

ALL OF THE BIBLE IS INSPIRED BY GOD. Paul's writing is beautiful not to mention he wrote most of the NT, I am sorry you can't appreciate that.

No offense Celtic Lady. I am sure you are a very nice person BUT if you don't quote scripture in your explanation of who and what God is then everything you say, is irrelevant.

I am not trying to be rude. but this is "solas scriptura" Studying scripture using only scripture, anything else is irresponsible and dangerous.

This is NOT legalism- Please use the term correctly- Legalism emphasizing a system of rules and regulations, in achieving both salvation and spiritual growth. No one is doing that. I am not explaining salvation but that we are broken people, born in sin from Adam, disgusting and wretched site in front of our God because He is so holy, righteous and hates sin. I am using scripture to explain who and what God is where as you are making things up using NO scripture.

"catch more flies with honey"???? Well I don't do it man's way. I do it the way the bible tells me. Paul said, "The message of the Cross is foolishness for those who are perishing" preaching about love, love, love. Jesus loves you, why don't you try on Jesus, Jesus died for your sins. Makes no sense to the unbeliever.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

What I see in many scriptures is that God's plan is not to punish people in an eternal hell. He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth and Jesus paid the price for all of us. Many will experience hell and a second death but the conclusion will be the reconciliation of all to Him. This is His intention according to scriptures like Colossians 1:15-20.


The words which have been translated as eternal in some translations is aionios or eonian and refers to an age. An unquenchable fire is one that burned until its purpose was fulfilled.

ETERNITY EXPLAINED

God bless.

WOW!!! That was a stretch. especially the part I have in bold. which still doesn't explain why hell isn't eternal, other the old cliche. God is all loving, and an all loving God wouldn't send someone to hell because that will make him a big ol' meanie.

[ShanaBrown]

Hi Reformed Liberal,
I don't believe in an eternal hell for many reasons, and I will post a some for now. I believe that the scriptures teach the eventual restoration of all to God.


Here are some scriptures which speak to the eventual restoration to God. They were posted on another thread. God bless.


Isaiah 46:9-11
“I am God and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times, things which have not been done, saying My purpose will be established and I will accomplish all my good pleasure, calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of My purpose from a far country, Truly I have spoken, truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely,I do it.


God will accomplish whatever He purposes to do and He sent Jesus to be the Savior of the world. This was His mission. I believe that He will fulfill that mission.


Psalms 22:
27. All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28. For the kingdom is the LORD'S
And He rules over the nations.
29. All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive

Universal worship and reverence before God. No one will be His enemies forever.




Psalms 66
4. "All the earth will worship You,
And will sing praises to You;
They will sing praises to Your name." Selah

Psalms 68:18
You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives;
You have received gifts among men,
Even among the rebellious also, that the LORD God may dwell there

God will dwell among those are rebellious. This to me refers to their eventual subjection to Him.



Isaiah 25:6-8
The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.
7. And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
8. He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.

Death will no longer stain the creation. All will return to God, all will be comforted. All will see the salvation of God.



Isaiah 45:22-25
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23. "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24. "They will say of Me, `Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
25. "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory." (NAS)

All will bow and confess Him, all will eventually swear allegiance to Him. All will be the offspring of Israel because Jesus will subject all to Himself.


Zephaniah 3
8 "Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9. "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the LORD,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder


God has a higher purpose for displaying His wrath and anger.


John 1:1-9
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2. He was in the beginning with God.3. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.4. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.5. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.6. There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.7. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.8. He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.9. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.

All will be enlightened.




John 12:27-32
27. "Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, `Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour.28. "Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."29. So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, "An angel has spoken to Him."30. Jesus answered and said, "This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.31. "Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.32. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."


The ruler of this world will be cast out and really has been cast out because Jesus said, "It is finished" When the ruler of this world is cast out no one will be under his power, influence. Evil, sin and its consequences will not exist forever in an eternal hell.

Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope21. that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.


The creation/creature will eventual be delivered and changed into the glorious freedom of children of God. The children of God are the firstfruits of God's harvest (James 1:18)

1 Corinthians 15:16-28
16. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;17. and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.18. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.20. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.23. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,24. then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.28. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

God will eventually be all in all when all are made subject to Him. Eternal hell will not exist if God is all in all.


Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

It was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself and God will accomplish or has accomplished whatever He purposes, intends, resolves to do. All have been created for Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1: 5-10
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens, and things upon the earth."

Eternal hell cannot exist if all are to be summed up ( anakephalaioomai) reunited, gathered together again) in Jesus.


John 4:14
"And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."

God sent His Son on a mission to be the Savior of the world and I believe that Jesus will accomplish the mission. (really already has)

There is a problem with the words which have been translated as eternity or eternal in some translations. Eternity means without beginning and without end and if something is eternal it is without beginning and end. According to many Biblical students, the words which have been translated as eternity or eternal is to be translated as an age and of or relating to an age. Here are some notes from other threads:

The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643): Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion (which has been translated as eternal in some translations) originally meant "vital force," "life," then "age," "lifetime."


Elliot’s Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46(. Everlasting punishment--life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios—it must be admitted that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25).

Lange's Commentary American Edition (vol. V, p. 48), on Ecclesiastes chapter 1 verse 4, in commenting upon the statement "The earth abideth forever" says, "The preacher, in contending with the universalist, or restorationist, would commit an error, and, it may be, suffer a failure in his argument, should he lay the whole stress of it on the etymological or historical significance of the words, aion, aionios, and attempt to prove that, of themselves, they necessarily carry the meaning of endless duration."
Tentmaker


For example, here are various translations of some verses which some Christians believe refer to eternal or everlasting punishment, eternal hell.

King James Version, 1611 spelled as in the original
1. And these shall goe away into euerlasting punishment : but the righteous into life eternall
2. And the deuil that deceiued them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night, for euer and euer

Note: This version had thousands of differences in two printings within the same year.

The Newberry Reference Bible, 1893
1. And these shall_go_away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal
2. And the devil that deceived them was_cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false_prophet are, and shall_be_tormented day and night forever and ever]
Margin of the Newberry KJV: the ages of the ages

Revised Version, 1881
1. And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life
2. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night* for ever and ever
*Footnotes in the Bible: Gr. unto the ages of the ages

American Standard Version
1. And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life
2. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.*
*Foot notes: Gr. unto the ages of the ages

The Riverside New Testament by Ballantine, 1934
1. These will go away into punishment eternal, but the righteous into life eternal
2. and the Devil who was misleading them was flung into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the Beast and the False Prophet, and they will be tormented day and night for the ages of the ages

Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition (Greek\English Interlinear)
1. And these shall go forth to the aionian 1cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life
2. And THAT ENEMY who deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and Sulphur, where both the BEAST and FALSE-PROPHET [were cast,] and they will be tormented Day and Night for the AGES of the AGES


The New Covenant, 1884
1. And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life
2. And the accuser that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the beast and [the] false prophet [are], and they shall be tormented day and night to the aeons of the aeons

Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898
1. And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during
2. and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night-to the ages of the ages

The Holy Bible In Modern English (Fenton), 1903
1. And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.
2. And the Devil who deceived them was hurled into the lake of Divine fire, where also were the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tortured day and night through the ages of the ages.

New Testament in Modern Speech, 1910
1. And these shall go away into the Punishment 1of the Ages, but the righteous into the Life* of the Ages.[/SIZE]
2. and the Devil,** who had been leading them astray, was thrown into 3the Lake of fire and sulphur where the Wild Beast and the false Prophet were, and day and night they will suffer torture until the Ages of the Ages
*Footnote: *Of the Ages Greek 'aeonian.'

The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, 1976
1. And these shall go away into age-abiding *correction, but the righteous into **age-abiding life
2. And the Adversary that had been deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where were both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of ages



The Twentieth Century New Testament, 1900
1. And these last will go away 'into aeonian punishment,' but the righteous 'into aeonian life.'[/SIZE]
2. and the Devil, their deceiver, was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the Beast and the false Prophet already were, and they will be tortured day and night for ever and ever

The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958
1. And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life
2. And the accuser, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where both the wild beast and the false prophet were cast; and they will be tormented day and night for the ages of the ages

The Western New Testament, 1926
1. And these will go away into eternal punishment,* but the righteous into life eternal
2. And the devil, who deceiveth them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the wild beast and the false prophet; and they will be tormented day and night for evermore.
[Footnote: Or chastisement (I S. John iv.18). Ref. on word “forever” in Matthew 21:19-literally “for the age"

The New Testament, a Translation, 1938
1. And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life
2. And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where are also the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of the ages.

Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
1. And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian
2. And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.

Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
1. And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.
2. ...and the Adversary that had been deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [were] both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of ages.


The Companion Bible,1990 A King James Reference Bible
1. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment : but the righteous into life eternal
2. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever

Many reference in this Bible that Aion which means "age." Aionios-"of or belonging to an age.



Some Christians believe that , "If aionios, eonian, does not mean endless time, then the believers do not have eternal, or everlasting life. Believers do have endless life, for 1 Cor. 15:42 says the dead will be raised in "incorruption," and 1 Cor. 15:53 speaks of "deathlessness," or "immortality" (Greek: aphtharsia and athanasia) Endlessness is expressed by such particles as "not," "un-," "in-," "-less."Death will ultimately be abolished (see 1 Cor. 15:16), and when death is abolished, all that can remain is endless life for all. First Corinthians 15:22 in its context says that life will be IN CHRIST, where there will be no more dying, and those in the resurrection here mentioned will be incorruptible and immortal

What is aionios life?

"That they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent."

Aionios or eonian life is the life of knowing God, of having a relationship with Him, and being changed into His image. Believers have this life but we still die until we are resurrected. Eonian life, the life of knowing Jesus Christ and the Father is what we experience now and and the coming ages. It precedes eternal life. Wnen we are resurrected, we will be raised incorruptible, immortal.


To me the teaching of an eternal hell contradicts the agape love of God, the concept of a just and merciful God. Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who put Him to death because "they know not what they do." I believe that anyone who rejects God, rebels against God does not know what he or she is doing. Those that are lost are said to be blind, held captives, under the power of the god of this world, however, Jesus came to destroy the works of satan. This tells me that no one will remain apart from God, an enemy of God for all of eternity. God will subject all to Himself so that He may be all in all (1 Corin. 15) For from Him, through Him, and to Him are all things (Romans 9)

God bless.

[ShanaBrown]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown
What I see in many scriptures is that God's plan is not to punish people in an eternal hell. He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth and Jesus paid the price for all of us. Many will experience hell and a second death but the conclusion will be the reconciliation of all to Him. This is His intention according to scriptures like Colossians 1:15-20.


The words which have been translated as eternal in some translations is aionios or eonian and refers to an age. An unquenchable fire is one that burned until its purpose was fulfilled.

ETERNITY EXPLAINED

God bless.

WOW!!! That was a stretch. especially the part I have in bold. which still doesn't explain why hell isn't eternal, other the old cliche. God is all loving, and an all loving God wouldn't send someone to hell because that will make him a big ol' meanie.

Okay, I need to run but here is some info in reference to the unquenchable fire:
References of unquenchable fire refer to fire that is unstoppable, unable to be quenched, but does not mean that the fire will be burning forever. For example in the OT, there are many references to God’s unquenchable fire or wrath and many have been fulfilled. This does not mean that the fires that brought about destruction are still burning today.

Josephus says, [Jewish War, B. ii, ch. xvii:6.] speaking of a fire that used to burn in the temple--though at the time he wrote [A.D.80] it had gone out, and the temple was destroyed--"Every one was accustomed to bring wood for the altar, that fuel might never be needed for the fire, for it continued always unquenchable."


Strabo, [A.D. 70} described the "unquenchable lamp" that used to burn in the Parthenon, though it has long since ceased to burn. [Lib. ix: p. 606.]

Plutarch, {A.D. 110} in Numa, [p. 262] speaks of places in Delphi and Athens, "where there is a fire unquenchable," (asbeston) though in the same breath he describes it as having ceased to burn.

Eusebius, [A.D]325, Eccl. Hist. Lib. vi, chap. 41] in his account of the martyrdom of Cronon and Julian, at Alexandria, says they were "consumed in unquenchable fire, asbesto puri," though it burned only long enough to destroy their bodies.

In the Scriptures an unquenchable fire is one that cannot be extinguished until it has fulfilled its purpose.

Lev. vi: 12-13, "And the fire upon the altar shall be burning in it; it shall not be put out: and the priest shall burn wood on it every morning, and lay the burnt offering in order upon it; and he shall burn thereon the fat of the peace offerings. The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out."
This fire was long ago extinguished, and yet it was "never to go out."

So we read in Isa. xxxiv:9-10, "And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up forever; from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever."
The unquenchable fire has long since expired


Some ref: Tentmaker
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html


God bless

[patrick42]

Great post shanna!

I would agree that the hell of torture is not the sheol and hades of the bible. i love that passage in Isa 45 did you notice what everyone who knee would bow whose tongue would confess would be confessing? That in Him they have righteousness and strength.

Isa 45:23-24I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

One shall say who is that one?

Scripture is clear

Eph 1:6-10 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. (7) In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; (8) Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; (9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: (10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Grace and Peace Patrick