Why do "Christians" like McCain instead of Obama (Gospel, hell)

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by silas777

That Bill Ayer's thing? That Bill Ayer's THING, along with that Rev Wright THING should concern every Christian deeply!

I'll even sharpen that comment to include ALL Americans....Christian or not! Good post, silas777!

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Ahem... *cough* *cough*... Ahem... *cough*

Stupid cigarettes...

Sorry, I should have said every Veteran I know 1) In 'real life' and 2) that's over 30.

[bigthirsty]

Originally Posted by silas777

5. I would be interested in seeing the source of that report. You really cant even compare Obama's standing with the Military to McCain's.

Veteran Report Card - Home

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by bigthirsty

Veteran Report Card - Home

I haven't looked over that report yet but I did download it.

I'm not familiar with IAVA. Is the report focused only on younger vets?

IAVA

Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America is the nation's first and largest group dedicated to the Troops and Veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the civilian supporters of those Troops and Veterans.

[MICoastieMom]

I am a Christian who is pro-choice on both abortion and gay/lesbian issues; and yes, I read the same Bible as you, unless your Bible doesn't recognize free will. If someone asks for my counsel, I will offer it, but I am not God and I am not Jesus and it is not my place to impose my personal beliefs on anyone. It is my obligation though, as a Christian and as an American, to work to protect the rights of those in the minority or those who are unable to speak for themselves, even if I personally disagree with it. I believe Jesus, by his example, expects us to embrace unpopular causes simply because protecting the rights of all is the right thing to do.

[Alpha8207]

Was skimming the 'report' bigthirsty cited and got the answer to my question:

Each of these votes was an opportunity for Senators and Representatives to take a stand on behalf of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. The votes cover the entire range of issues facing new veterans, including veterans’ health care, the new GI Bill, mental health, and support for homeless veterans. The significance of each individual vote is described in the “Vote Description” section of the report card.

I won't comment farther. I might offend someone. I'll just say this, Iraq and Afghanistan are not the only wars we have veterans of.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by MICoastieMom

I am a Christian who is pro-choice on both abortion and gay/lesbian issues; and yes, I read the same Bible as you, unless your Bible doesn't recognize free will. If someone asks for my counsel, I will offer it, but I am not God and I am not Jesus and it is not my place to impose my personal beliefs on anyone. It is my obligation though, as a Christian and as an American, to work to protect the rights of those in the minority or those who are unable to speak for themselves, even if I personally disagree with it. I believe Jesus, by his example, expects us to embrace unpopular causes simply because protecting the rights of all is the right thing to do.

I don't know if that was directed toward me or not. I believe you can be a Christian and still be pro-choice but I can question your salvation because the BIBLE IS VERY CLEAR ON THOSE ISSUES!!!!!!!

Do you actually know what is "free will"? I guess from your definition we should allow things to go on in Ruwanda, Sudan and Nazi Germany because after all we have "free will" to consider.

It's not what you believe Jesus to do or say, It is what you know Jesus to do or say from reading YOUR bible

(Romans 12:9)
"Let love be without hypocrisy Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good."
We are commanded to hate what is evil and cling to what is good

(Deuteronomy 7:10)
“Those who hate Him He will repay to their face by destruction; He will not be slow to repay to their face those who hate Him”

Did Jesus embrace the "unpopular cause" of the market in the temple?. If memory serves me, I believe Jesus showed His displeasure.

One thing is for certain we do not worship the same Jesus.

Christians can fool themselves about Obama but this is a man that clearly does his own will rather than God's will. He is in favor of murdering God's blessing and many of you Christians just let it go and make silly examples and excuses.

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY??!!

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by MICoastieMom

I am a Christian who is pro-choice on abortion ...... It is my obligation though, as a Christian and as an American, to work to protect the rights those who are unable to speak for themselves......

[NCyank]

I can speak for myself as a Christian who's personal actions often differ vastly from my political beliefs. I am very conservative in my personal actions, politically leaning much more libertarian.

1. From my POV it seems that in the middle of one of the greatest financial crisis (whats the plural of crisis? crises) the right wing seems more concerned with abortion. That fascinates me.

Religious right is always concerned with abortion, not necessarily more or less than economics, but regardless of economics. Actually, I have heard it brought up by the left more in this election cycle.

2. From my POV it seems that in the middle of one of the greatest financial crisis (whats the plural of crisis? crises ) the right wing seems more concerned with homosexuality. That fascinates me.

Religious right is always concerned with homosexuality,not necessarily more or less than economics, but regardless of economics. I haven't heard it brought up much by either side in this election cycle.

3. Obama is proposing that 95% of the population gets a tax cut. I don't make over $250K so I look at that as a good thing. The fact that others don't see it that way.. fascinates me.

Regardless of my income, I don't believe in redistribution of wealth by force of governments. I have been both poor and had plenty (still well less than $250,000 per year) and my position has remained the same. Besides, 40% of working Americans do not pay income tax, how does he propose to give them a cut? I don't like the classist implications of his economic policies, I prefer all people to have equal opportunity knowing there will not be equal outcomes rather than trying to equalize outcomes and ignoring available opportunities.

4. Is it foriegn policy? I ask because even if you think Obama isn't "qualified" he at least chose a VP that has years of foriegn policy experience. You can't really say the same about McCain.

Being a Christian has no impact on this particular view of politics for me.
No, Obama isn't qualified and on every foreign policy issue Biden has been WRONG. Experience is irrelevant if you can't get to the right answer in the end.

5. Is it Veterans affairs? I non partisian report was released just today that gives McCain a D (as in Doh) in Veterans affairs. Obama got a B.

I don't know enough about this report or either candidate's record to comment. Overall, I do not support immediate withdrawl but rather an intentional and well thought out exit strategy. It seems both candidates are pushing that direction, one with more urgency and one willing to take the time it needs to exit in victory rather than just exit. But, that isn't quite what you are asking. I trust McCain to do right by veterans, BO doesn't have a long enough track record on anything, but he has said some terrible things about how our troops are conducting missions, he was not in favor of additional funding or the surge, both of which were necessary. I don't know that I trust him to support the military in any aspect, including veterans affairs.

6. Is it healthcare? McCain doesn't think its a right. Tell that to any hospital administrator that has an ER room. Its already a right.

I agree with McCain but again, it isn't completely related to being a Christian. We have a responsibility to care for ourselves and others....It is not the role of government. The number of Americans who truly can't afford health care (and are not currently subsidized by state and federal programs) are very few. You don't need a national plan that addresses everyone to make sure the few are taken care of.

All these things fascinate me. What is it then? Is it the Bill Ayers thing? Is that what tips the scales?

This issue has nothing to do with being a Christian for me. I just don't believe BO when he says he didn't know. He has told too many versions of the story to be credible. I would think that he should have known (if it is true that he didn't) and that he would have cut off any association once he found out. It doesn't seem that is the case. A related issue is that he is unwilling to release his college transcripts and records. What groups did he belong to, what was his thesis, etc. There are questions of how his education was funded, who gave him the scholarships, etc. Given his KNOWN questionable associations I have to wonder (and I think any reasonable person would) if there is something worse to be found by probing deeper?

[bigthirsty]

Sorry. Just to clarify:

5. Is it Veterans affairs? I non partisian report was released just today that gives McCain a D (as in Doh) in Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans affairs. Obama got a B.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by bigthirsty

Sorry. Just to clarify:

5. Is it Veterans affairs? I non partisian report was released just today that gives McCain a D (as in Doh) in Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans affairs. Obama got a B.

Maybe you should look at the grades of Planned Parenthood for both candidates.

I am sorry but what in the world does the military or veterans affairs have anything to do with Christianity?

(p.s. Most if not ALL votes come with other issues attached to them- like bringing troops home, in which McCain would never vote for. Those votes have "catches" to them)