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Old 10-09-2008, 09:13 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,446,444 times
Reputation: 47456

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you are right mccain is a real live hero. i like him.
but i am for obama. am i still a christian.
the war must stop, we are going broke fast.
mccain will never stop he has a score to settle with vietnam.
obama 08
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:19 AM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,063,022 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
Maybe you should look at the grades of Planned Parenthood for both candidates.
Here ya go.

Planned Parenthood Action Fund - Planned Parenthood Action Center

Planned Parenthood Action Fund - Planned Parenthood Action Center

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
I am sorry but what in the world does the military or veterans affairs have anything to do with Christianity?
Again I'm only replying because you seemed to wonder why I included veterans affairs in the original OP.

My perspective was that I was under the assumption that taking care of our troops was a good thing. Obviously you think otherwise. My mistake and my apologies.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:19 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,250,351 times
Reputation: 3440
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
More clairification and followup since this was kinda directed at me:

Tom Brokaw put the question to each candidate, "Is health care in America a privilege, a right, or a responsibility?"

McCain: "I think it's a responsibility, in this respect, in that we should have available and affordable health care to every American citizen, to every family member,"

Obama: "Well, I think it should be a right for every American."

I guess I didn't understand that McCains answer was from the perspective of "Commander in Chief" since he didn't state it as such.
Look, I know you'll probably never agree with this, but I'll say it anyway.

McCain said "I think it's a responsibility, in this respect, in that we should have available and affordable health care to every American citizen, to every family member" which says to me: The Government has the responsibility to delivery this right to Americans.

Obama said: "Well, I think it should be a right for every American. In a country as wealthy as ours....." which says to me: The Government has the responsibility to deliver this right to Americans.

But, in my opinion, McCain answered from the perspective of having that responsibility to serve the country by delivering the 'right' and Obama answered from the perspective of the person 'owed' the right.

One from the perspective of CiC the other from the perspective of an individual American.

I'm also not so naive that I realize you and I are both biased and I guess there's an element of 'hearing what we want to hear', but to me this point was pretty obvious. Key words: to me
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:20 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,453,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I agree and the Word tells us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Do you not believe Christ would have us care of our neighbors and take care of those around us? Well, that's a part of what Veteran Affairs is supposed to do.

Listen, I'm not saying make Veteran Affairs the ONLY reason you vote for someone but Christ is all and in all....including veteran affairs.
When we become Christians, one of the fruits is helping and caring for others but first and foremost it is about the gospel. It's ALWAYS about the gospel

We just don't just help and feed others and that's that, we have an agenda. We spread the gospel to the people we help and feed without doing that then the cause is pointless.

You just can't go to Africa and say repent or you will go to hell. You help their sick, feed their poor, build their houses, purify their water. Then they look at us with respect and want to know more about us and more about God.

Why didn't Jesus while he was on earth create programs, welfare systems? why didn't He feed the poor during all His sermons?
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:21 AM
 
692 posts, read 1,538,997 times
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When we discuss abortion on this forum few people discuss prevention of unwanted pregnanices. Perhaps because this requires more effort and commitment than just passing a law. When young girls and young women have a sense of self worth, they are less likely to engage in intercourse at an early age. When comprehensive sex ed (including abstinance) is taught in schools the rate of teen pregancies declines. Why are not discussing ways to lower the number of unwanted pregancies?
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:27 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,453,301 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by liliblu View Post
When we discuss abortion on this forum few people discuss prevention of unwanted pregnanices. Perhaps because this requires more effort and commitment than just passing a law. When young girls and young women have a sense of self worth, they are less likely to engage in intercourse at an early age. When comprehensive sex ed (including abstinance) is taught in schools the rate of teen pregancies declines. Why are not discussing ways to lower the number of unwanted pregancies?
That's why we preach the gospel to evry man woman and child in this country and beyond, then you won't have your unwanted pregnancies.

You want to get rid of greed.....christianity

You want to get rid of racism....christianity

The sad part is the answer is right in front of you and you don't see it.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:31 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,250,351 times
Reputation: 3440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
When we become Christians, one of the fruits is helping and caring for others but first and foremost it is about the gospel. It's ALWAYS about the gospel
Really? Care to cite me the scriptures to back that up? Here's some of my favorite verses and read them carefully, there's some very strong words here from the King.(I'll add emphasis to assist)
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Matt 22:34-40
So what's first and foremost?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
We just don't just help and feed others and that's that, we have an agenda. We spread the gospel to the people we help and feed without doing that then the cause is pointless.
Caring for those who need us is the avenue to tell others about Christ. Christ IS the message and it's reflected in our actions.
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. I John 3:16-18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
You just can't go to Africa and say repent or you will go to hell. You help their sick, feed their poor, build their houses, purify their water. Then they look at us with respect and want to know more about us and more about God.
Exactly, but that doesn't really line up with your previous paragraph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
Why didn't Jesus while he was on earth create programs, welfare systems? why didn't He feed the poor during all His sermons?
He fed the hungry more than once and you should know this. You have read the Sermon on the Mount and the subsequent feeding, right?

Also, read the scripture in this post again and you will actually see Christ setting up programs to feed and care for the poor and lowly.

It's called the Church! and it resides in you and me.......
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:36 AM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,063,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Look, I know you'll probably never agree with this, but I'll say it anyway.

McCain said "I think it's a responsibility, in this respect, in that we should have available and affordable health care to every American citizen, to every family member" which says to me: The Government has the responsibility to delivery this right to Americans.

Obama said: "Well, I think it should be a right for every American. In a country as wealthy as ours....." which says to me: The Government has the responsibility to deliver this right to Americans.

But, in my opinion, McCain answered from the perspective of having that responsibility to serve the country by delivering the 'right' and Obama answered from the perspective of the person 'owed' the right.

One from the perspective of CiC the other from the perspective of an individual American.

I'm also not so naive that I realize you and I are both biased and I guess there's an element of 'hearing what we want to hear', but to me this point was pretty obvious. Key words: to me
I was just clarifying that you being suprised that I didn't get your interpretation is suprising to me. Thats it. Nothing more. I provided additional information to the post as it seemed to cause some confusion. Thats all.

You've outlined why you think he believes its a right. I can see your point. My point was if given three options to choose from (Right, Privledge, or Responsibility) if you think its a right then the best answer next time might be to state: "I think its a right..." and then state why you think so.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,461 posts, read 3,214,942 times
Reputation: 821
Obama scares me since he has so little experince. He is a very good speaker but nothing to back it up. His views on Abortion are so against what I feel. I will vote for McCain since he understands world politics much better, is anit-abortion and I really like Sara Palin. No one is perfect, all have their flaws but I think looking at the whole picture that McCain is the better choice for me as a believer.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:37 AM
 
2,514 posts, read 5,177,365 times
Reputation: 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
So you think it's wrong but you're OK with allowing it.

Yep, that sounds like Christ.
Oh please! There are cases of rape and incest, or a pregnancy that may jeopardize the mother's life. I guess it's ok to you that McCain doesn't have any plans to end the war and continues to take out innocent lives. Oh, but that's different!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MICoastieMom View Post
I am a Christian who is pro-choice on both abortion and gay/lesbian issues; and yes, I read the same Bible as you, unless your Bible doesn't recognize free will. If someone asks for my counsel, I will offer it, but I am not God and I am not Jesus and it is not my place to impose my personal beliefs on anyone. It is my obligation though, as a Christian and as an American, to work to protect the rights of those in the minority or those who are unable to speak for themselves, even if I personally disagree with it. I believe Jesus, by his example, expects us to embrace unpopular causes simply because protecting the rights of all is the right thing to do.
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