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Old 07-08-2010, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,909,322 times
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We are going thru a trying time with my youngest son, he is 8. We have tried everything else and he sees a counselor once a week. When he throws one of his fit the only thing that works is a spanking. The counselor and out church has told us we are doing just fine and if it comes to a spanking we should do it. Know just the threat of a spanking works and he has less fits.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:55 PM
 
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In 2 Corinthians 12 :9..... Apostle Paul had the devil bothering him and had a problem geting rid of these spirits he called a thorn in his flesh....., almost like these Child abusers who could not get rid of these diffrent spirits called preverted spirits,,,,, Jesus told Paul ``My grace is sufficient for thee for my strength is made perfect in weakness ``........if these child abusers where to turn to Jesus instead of turning the the devils of preverted for their flesh, Jesus said `` Can`t stop then that is the key to Heaven for Redemption, and this one has strength for Jesus Spirit......See Jesus gives us a promise for HIS purpose.......
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,909,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
In 2 Corinthians 12 :9..... Apostle Paul had the devil bothering him and had a problem geting rid of these spirits he called a thorn in his flesh....., almost like these Child abusers who could not get rid of these diffrent spirits called preverted spirits,,,,, Jesus told Paul ``My grace is sufficient for thee for my strength is made perfect in weakness ``........if these child abusers where to turn to Jesus instead of turning the the devils of preverted for their flesh, Jesus said `` Can`t stop then that is the key to Heaven for Redemption, and this one has strength for Jesus Spirit......See Jesus gives us a promise for HIS purpose.......
So you are saying we should just let him throw fits and destroy property with no consiquences? I dont think so.
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:58 PM
 
11 posts, read 27,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
Those quotes really didn't say anything explicit.
We all know child abuse and especially child sexual abuse is pure evil but why isn't that made clear and obvious in the bible?
Because the Bible isn't meant to be clear and obvious.
1 Corinthians 2:14
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:27 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,426,505 times
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Default Spare the rod and spoil the child

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
We are going thru a trying time with my youngest son, he is 8. We have tried everything else and he sees a counselor once a week. When he throws one of his fit the only thing that works is a spanking. The counselor and out church has told us we are doing just fine and if it comes to a spanking we should do it. Know just the threat of a spanking works and he has less fits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
In 2 Corinthians 12 :9..... Apostle Paul had the devil bothering him and had a problem geting rid of these spirits he called a thorn in his flesh....., almost like these Child abusers who could not get rid of these diffrent spirits called preverted spirits,,,,, Jesus told Paul ``My grace is sufficient for thee for my strength is made perfect in weakness ``........if these child abusers where to turn to Jesus instead of turning the the devils of preverted for their flesh, Jesus said `` Can`t stop then that is the key to Heaven for Redemption, and this one has strength for Jesus Spirit......See Jesus gives us a promise for HIS purpose.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
So you are saying we should just let him throw fits and destroy property with no consiquences? I dont think so.
Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

God knows that this passage have been a tool for abusive parents who have no discernment.

A child by nature cannot sit down and listen to reason...the only thing that he reacts to and fear is pain. Therefore, discipline is of utmost importance in ensuring that the child is molded into a good and responsible person while he is still young. Just like a tree that we can bend shape in ways that we desire. Spanking on the fleshy rear 1,2,3 times had been my practice until they reached the age of reason...12 years old in my book.

bickering and selfishness = 1 whack
not listening = 2 whacks
and lying = 3 whacks

Anymore than this is ineffective and abusive!!!

Always asking them to bend over so I could hit the behind which is padded with flesh to begin with using a flat 1 inch bamboo stick...NEVER anywhere else...that was enough to make them think twice before committing any offense...

Blessings...
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Florida
478 posts, read 638,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
I was curious is sexual abuse of a child against The Bible?

I know people get enraged and point fingers at homosexuals but was there anything about sexual perversions regarding children or pedophiles, it seems to go vastly ignored with Christianity. You don't hear much shaming about that, but you hear a lot of shaming and belittling of homosexuals. Your thoughts on that.....
You'd think that those guilty of doing as you describe above would see how bass-ackwards they are, in both their actions as well as their reasons for their motivation- but they don't. It's a matter of choosing one's battles, and understanding what matters in this life and what does not.

The catholic church well illustrates this. They strongly condemn homosexuality, yet they are an institution rife with a disturbing percentage of clergymen molesting children- something that has happened consistently, and repeatedly within the parameters of the church. This most likely due to the tradition of requiring celibacy from their clergy; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where requiring something so completely unnatural and unhealthy might create problems, and that such stringent and unusual requirements would only attract those who have sexual issues to begin with...DUH! And yet they ignore what are SERIOUS problems within their institution, and continue rant on about other "sins" while doing nothing to change or fix that which is severely flawed, and dangerous within itself...?

Anyway, it should be clear that one's energies and efforts should be used to address serious problems, things that actually endanger and threaten the well being of members of our society. Period. So with regard to the "issue" of homosexuality: it isn't an "issue". I can't believe that in this day and age there are still people who are actually "against" it; how can someone be "against" the way someone just is?! Homosexuality is not a disease, not an aberration, nor is it contagious or viral. And it is completely irrelevant to anyone but those who actually ARE homosexuals, so should hardly be an issue, let alone something people think they need to "fight"...what a huge, absurd step backwards. If we as a society are going to accept such counterproductive, and primitive agendas, we might as well let men go back to dragging us women around by our hair while we're at it! That may be an ancient and long lost cultural practice, but it's no less ridiculous and outdated...
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,578,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helios666 View Post
If we as a society are going to accept such counterproductive, and primitive agendas, we might as well let men go back to dragging us women around by our hair while we're at it!
Sounds like a PLAN to me!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by helios666 View Post
That may be an ancient and long lost cultural practice, but it's no less ridiculous and outdated...
On a more serious note - we have come a long long way. I was just made aware of this document a few minutes ago. From 1948:

Universal Declaration
of Human Rights

As adopted by the United Nations General Assembly, December 10, 1948

Preamble

Whereas, recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas, disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas, it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

Whereas, it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

Whereas, the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom.

Whereas, Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in cooperation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms.

Whereas, a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

Now, Therefore, the General Assembly proclaims this Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

Articles

ARTICLE 1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

ARTICLE 2. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, color, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

ARTICLE 3. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

ARTICLE 4. No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

ARTICLE 5. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

ARTICLE 6. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

ARTICLE 7. All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

ARTICLE 8. Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

ARTICLE 9. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

ARTICLE 10. Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

ARTICLE 11. (1) Everyone charged with a penal offense has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defense.
(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offense on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offense, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offense was committed.

ARTICLE 12. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

ARTICLE 13. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and return to his country.

ARTICLE 14. (1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecution genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

ARTICLE 15. (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

ARTICLE 16. (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitations due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

ARTICLE 17. (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

ARTICLE 18. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others, and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

ARTICLE 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression. This right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

ARTICLE 20. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

ARTICLE 21. (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

ARTICLE 22. Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international cooperation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

ARTICLE 23. (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favorable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone has the right to just and favorable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

ARTICLE 24. Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

ARTICLE 25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

ARTICLE 26. (1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

ARTICLE 27. (1) Everyone has the right to freely participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

ARTICLE 28. Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

ARTICLE 29. (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

ARTICLE 30. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

Adopted by the United Nations General Assembly, December 10, 1948.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Florida
478 posts, read 638,717 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Sounds like a PLAN to me!!!

On a more serious note - we have come a long long way. I was just made aware of this document a few minutes ago. From 1948:

Universal Declaration of Human Rights
I think everything within the above declaration is a tenet that is necessary to have a successful and peaceful society, and should be a non-negotiable within any and every established religion or religious practice. But it isn't, and I don't understand why- especially because the core of most religions/faiths is not unlike the above; it's the people who add all this weird stuff to it that makes even the idea of religion curl one's eyebrows...

Anyway thank you for sharing that- I think the Universalist view is a healthy one, and one that I really have trouble understanding how anyone could have a problem with it. And I don't think most people do except those who adhere to extreme or fundamentalist religions and their by-laws. Who are the people who would benefit most from the understanding and practice of such a declaration! Oh the irony...
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:55 AM
 
Location: San Antonio TX
127 posts, read 237,513 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
I was curious is sexual abuse of a child against The Bible?

I know people get enraged and point fingers at homosexuals but was there anything about sexual perversions regarding children or pedophiles, it seems to go vastly ignored with Christianity. You don't hear much shaming about that, but you hear a lot of shaming and belittling of homosexuals. Your thoughts on that.....
Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord.

Colossians 3:21
Fathers, do not aggravate your children, or they will become discouraged.

Leviticus 18

Forbidden Sexual Practices

1 Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 “Give the following instructions to the people of Israel. I am the Lord your God. 3 So do not act like the people in Egypt, where you used to live, or like the people of Canaan, where I am taking you. You must not imitate their way of life. 4 You must obey all my regulations and be careful to obey my decrees, for I am the Lord your God. 5 If you obey my decrees and my regulations, you will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 “You must never have sexual relations with a close relative, for I am the Lord.
7 “Do not violate your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; you must not have sexual relations with her.
8 “Do not have sexual relations with any of your father’s wives, for this would violate your father.
9 “Do not have sexual relations with your sister or half sister, whether she is your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born into your household or someone else’s.
10 “Do not have sexual relations with your granddaughter, whether she is your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, for this would violate yourself.
11 “Do not have sexual relations with your stepsister, the daughter of any of your father’s wives, for she is your sister.
12 “Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister, for she is your father’s close relative.
13 “Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s close relative.
14 “Do not violate your uncle, your father’s brother, by having sexual relations with his wife, for she is your aunt.
15 “Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, so you must not have sexual relations with her.
16 “Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife, for this would violate your brother.
17 “Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. And do not take[a] her granddaughter, whether her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, and have sexual relations with her. They are close relatives, and this would be a wicked act.
18 “While your wife is living, do not marry her sister and have sexual relations with her, for they would be rivals.
19 “Do not have sexual relations with a woman during her period of menstrual impurity.
20 “Do not defile yourself by having sexual intercourse with your neighbor’s wife.
21 “Do not permit any of your children to be offered as a sacrifice to Molech, for you must not bring shame on the name of your God. I am the Lord.
22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
23 “A man must not defile himself by having sex with an animal. And a woman must not offer herself to a male animal to have intercourse with it. This is a perverse act.
24 “Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for the people I am driving out before you have defiled themselves in all these ways. 25 Because the entire land has become defiled, I am punishing the people who live there. I will cause the land to vomit them out. 26 You must obey all my decrees and regulations. You must not commit any of these detestable sins. This applies both to native-born Israelites and to the foreigners living among you. 27 “All these detestable activities are practiced by the people of the land where I am taking you, and this is how the land has become defiled. 28 So do not defile the land and give it a reason to vomit you out, as it will vomit out the people who live there now. 29 Whoever commits any of these detestable sins will be cut off from the community of Israel. 30 So obey my instructions, and do not defile yourselves by committing any of these detestable practices that were committed by the people who lived in the land before you. I am the Lord your God.”
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:15 AM
 
11 posts, read 27,536 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by kendsley View Post
Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord.

Colossians 3:21
Fathers, do not aggravate your children, or they will become discouraged.

Leviticus 18

Forbidden Sexual Practices

1 Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 “Give the following instructions to the people of Israel. I am the Lord your God. 3 So do not act like the people in Egypt, where you used to live, or like the people of Canaan, where I am taking you. You must not imitate their way of life. 4 You must obey all my regulations and be careful to obey my decrees, for I am the Lord your God. 5 If you obey my decrees and my regulations, you will find life through them. I am the Lord.

6 “You must never have sexual relations with a close relative, for I am the Lord.
7 “Do not violate your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; you must not have sexual relations with her.
8 “Do not have sexual relations with any of your father’s wives, for this would violate your father.
9 “Do not have sexual relations with your sister or half sister, whether she is your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born into your household or someone else’s.
10 “Do not have sexual relations with your granddaughter, whether she is your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, for this would violate yourself.
11 “Do not have sexual relations with your stepsister, the daughter of any of your father’s wives, for she is your sister.
12 “Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister, for she is your father’s close relative.
13 “Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s close relative.
14 “Do not violate your uncle, your father’s brother, by having sexual relations with his wife, for she is your aunt.
15 “Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, so you must not have sexual relations with her.
16 “Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife, for this would violate your brother.
17 “Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. And do not take her granddaughter, whether her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, and have sexual relations with her. They are close relatives, and this would be a wicked act.
18 “While your wife is living, do not marry her sister and have sexual relations with her, for they would be rivals.
19 “Do not have sexual relations with a woman during her period of menstrual impurity.
20 “Do not defile yourself by having sexual intercourse with your neighbor’s wife.
21 “Do not permit any of your children to be offered as a sacrifice to Molech, for you must not bring shame on the name of your God. I am the Lord.
22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
23 “A man must not defile himself by having sex with an animal. And a woman must not offer herself to a male animal to have intercourse with it. This is a perverse act.
24 “Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for the people I am driving out before you have defiled themselves in all these ways. 25 Because the entire land has become defiled, I am punishing the people who live there. I will cause the land to vomit them out. 26 You must obey all my decrees and regulations. You must not commit any of these detestable sins. This applies both to native-born Israelites and to the foreigners living among you. 27 “All these detestable activities are practiced by the people of the land where I am taking you, and this is how the land has become defiled. 28 So do not defile the land and give it a reason to vomit you out, as it will vomit out the people who live there now. 29 Whoever commits any of these detestable sins will be cut off from the community of Israel. 30 So obey my instructions, and do not defile yourselves by committing any of these detestable practices that were committed by the people who lived in the land before you. I am the Lord your God.”
Good post! Too many point out verses they like and ignore what they don't like. Then they claim that the Bible supports their view, when if you read more, you'll find out that it does not.

Here's another verse I like.
1 Corinthians 16:14
"Do everything in Love."

It's short, simple, and to the point. Those who are screaming red-faced as they beat their children black and blue might stop a moment and ask themselves "Am I doing this because I want my child to learn, or am I just throwing a temper tantrum right now?".
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