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Old 11-18-2008, 12:18 AM
 
14,752 posts, read 27,627,405 times
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You know, Roman Catholicism is my religion and it suits me fine. Do I think it is superior to other religions? NO. I don't think any Catholic, or member of another religion, should ever think that....but they do. I find that inherently sinful. Catholics have gotten better, and more laid back, on this topic.

The Catholic school system educated me for 16 years, through my undergraduate degree. The only theology requirements in college were 1 lower division religion course and 1 upper division religion course, and the same mix in philosophy. The non-Catholics could always take courses like "Comparison of Religions" and, dammit, I got stuck taking the boring ones, as the more "secular" ones always filled up.

No, Catholic school was NOT a traumatic experience. I was an incorrigible little bastard who got mostly all As, so the teachers, including the nuns and priests, liked me. I am thankful for the exceptional education and attention I received, and would do it again in a heartbeat...except that I would have ventured further away for college.

Returning to religion, I lapsed because of boredom. C'mon, 16 years of Catholic school... let's give it a rest. I returned and found a couple of parishes that work for me...not too liberal and not too conservative, and that have a Saturday or a Sunday evening Mass that works after I get all my errands done. I also found that today's Catholic church is more relaxed and less foreboding.

Let's not talk about the historical (and even recent) "black eyes" of the Church, as those were perpetrated by a corrupt few who abused power. I hardly think the working-class Irish immigrant in Boston or the Mexican illegal in L.A. would be parties to those negative goings-on -- they just want to be a part of the church and be devout members, oftentimes tossing nothing into the collection tray. Heck, I show up in clean jeans, a college/tourist tee-shirt and flip-flops when the weather is hot. I usually toss a "Lincoln" into the tray.

As far as I am concerned, any Old Testament PLUS New Testament religion is a Christian religion. Within that sphere, which denomination you belong to is a personal preference issue....you like being Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal, AOG or Greek Orthodox? Go for it. I like where I am. At the end of the day, we believe the SAME things.

I don't know what other religions who are not strictly "OT + NT formatted" believe. I don't care. I didn't take comparative religions and I don't want to "explore." I've been combative about religion on this sub-forum and my combativeness with (a few religious groups) is not based on the content of their religion, but on behavior patterns and arrogance that I and many others observe so I won't digress.

Another thing to remember is that God is everywhere. Therefore, an embryo conceived in Helsinki could invariably be a Lutheran, in Beirut a Muslim, in Seville a Catholic, in Tel Aviv a Jew, in Salt Lake City a Mormon, in Delhi a Hindu, and on and on. I think the friction that is created is artificial and exists precisely because people think their religion is "right" and "better" than the other person's creed.

 
Old 11-18-2008, 09:16 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,287,955 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
You know, Roman Catholicism is my religion and it suits me fine. Do I think it is superior to other religions? NO. I don't think any Catholic, or member of another religion, should ever think that....but they do. I find that inherently sinful. Catholics have gotten better, and more laid back, on this topic.

......

As far as I am concerned, any Old Testament PLUS New Testament religion is a Christian religion. Within that sphere, which denomination you belong to is a personal preference issue....you like being Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal, AOG or Greek Orthodox? Go for it. I like where I am. At the end of the day, we believe the SAME things.

I don't know what other religions who are not strictly "OT + NT formatted" believe. I don't care. I didn't take comparative religions and I don't want to "explore." I've been combative about religion on this sub-forum and my combativeness with (a few religious groups) is not based on the content of their religion, but on behavior patterns and arrogance that I and many others observe so I won't digress.

Another thing to remember is that God is everywhere. Therefore, an embryo conceived in Helsinki could invariably be a Lutheran, in Beirut a Muslim, in Seville a Catholic, in Tel Aviv a Jew, in Salt Lake City a Mormon, in Delhi a Hindu, and on and on. I think the friction that is created is artificial and exists precisely because people think their religion is "right" and "better" than the other person's creed.
We believe in the SAME thing? ......Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya!!!!!

We believe in many of the same things, but there are clearly major differences. Otherwise the other churches would not have separated from the Catholic Church, nor separated from themselves. Either you don't understand other Christian religions or you don't understand your own.

If Jesus created the Catholic Church and wanted unity, why would you declare that all churches are pretty much alike and it would be arrogant to think that the Catholic Church is superior? If that were true, I would just pick the church with the best band. I do like good music. I sure wouldn't go to a church that would hold me accountable. I would go to a church that made me feel good because I like feeling good. Why would I go to a church that made me drink the blood and eat the flesh of Jesus. That's disgusting and sounds like cannibalism. I really like Welch's grape juice with a nice piece of french bread. You know, I think I will go to a church that serves that. Why clutter up your mind with 2000 years of Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, a Magesterium, and history when you can just have a Bible and an opinion? It's so much simpler and I think we should apply the K.I.S.S. principle to church, too. And that confession thing....saved, not saved, saved, not saved. That's insane. Why not just say "Jesus is my personal savior" and BAM, you're saved once and forever. Now that's the K.I.S.S principle in action.

Now that I think about it, the aggregate of the Protestant Churches are superior to the Catholic in just about every way that I can think of except one - TRUTH! All of the reasons that I stated above are reasons to go to a church because it is what I prefer. But lost in all of this is the question you should ask yourself: What did Jesus intend for you and for His Church and what does God prefer for you?

Last edited by juj; 11-18-2008 at 09:26 AM..
 
Old 11-18-2008, 01:39 PM
 
14,752 posts, read 27,627,405 times
Reputation: 8737
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
We believe in the SAME thing? ......Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya!!!!!

Now that I think about it, the aggregate of the Protestant Churches are superior to the Catholic in just about every way that I can think of except one - TRUTH! All of the reasons that I stated above are reasons to go to a church because it is what I prefer. But lost in all of this is the question you should ask yourself: What did Jesus intend for you and for His Church and what does God prefer for you?
Thank you for inserting the tendency toward factioning that I disagree with. I'm being sarcastic, as you can tell.

I, too, can take the message of the OT and the NT and do so by attending a Catholic church and applying its teachings to my life. The message to all Christian churches IS the SAME. The "style" is different. It's that mentality that helps create the problems we have. And, if we have such problems within Christian sects, it only amplifies how bad it gets when we start considering Christianity vis-a-vis Judaism, Islam, etc. and it only amplifies why there is so much conflict in the world.

Peace to you...
 
Old 11-19-2008, 01:07 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,287,955 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
Thank you for inserting the tendency toward factioning that I disagree with. I'm being sarcastic, as you can tell.

I, too, can take the message of the OT and the NT and do so by attending a Catholic church and applying its teachings to my life. The message to all Christian churches IS the SAME. The "style" is different. It's that mentality that helps create the problems we have. And, if we have such problems within Christian sects, it only amplifies how bad it gets when we start considering Christianity vis-a-vis Judaism, Islam, etc. and it only amplifies why there is so much conflict in the world.

Peace to you...
Look, I understand where you are coming from, but let's not sugar coat the Christian world. I understand you don't like to drive a wedge between Catholics and Protestants. That is commendable and should be copied. But the truth is that they separated from us, not the other way around. I am not mad at Protestants at all and I certainly feel that they are free to do what they want, but the message being the same is not enough. No eucharist, no life. John 6 says so and most of the Protestant world either ignores John 6 altogether or distorts it's meaning. The eucharist is central to the mass. Without that "style" as you call it, what do you have?

Bottom line, I think you are watering down the importance of what the Catholic Church believes in for the sake of "getting along". The Catholic Church has always preached tolerance and respect to their fellow Christian churches which I agree with. But if I didn't think the Catholic Church was superior, I would go somewhere else. It's that simple.
 
Old 11-19-2008, 03:55 AM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,443,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
Now that I think about it, the aggregate of the Protestant Churches are superior to the Catholic in just about every way that I can think of except one - TRUTH! All of the reasons that I stated above are reasons to go to a church because it is what I prefer. But lost in all of this is the question you should ask yourself: What did Jesus intend for you and for His Church and what does God prefer for you?
That is pretty arrogant
What truth, praytell, are protestants missing?
 
Old 11-19-2008, 09:04 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,287,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
That is pretty arrogant
What truth, praytell, are protestants missing?
Speaking for all Protestants, are you? That's pretty hard to do. They don't agree with each other, hence their separation. Oh yes, 32,000+ separations.

So what Protestant church do you represent? Maybe church 3 or 1034 or maybe church 13562?

By the way, I go to Church 1! The very Church that Jesus created and said that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. The Church that assembled the very bible that you use (even without seven books). The Church that 2000 years later is still there for me to go to just like Jesus said it would. Arrogant maybe, but when you are the Church that Jesus created and you are defending her, well... If you want to call that arrogance, fine then.
 
Old 11-19-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,368 posts, read 4,102,572 times
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“Bottom line, I think you are watering down the importance of what the Catholic Church believes in for the sake of "getting along". The Catholic Church has always preached tolerance and respect to their fellow Christian churches which I agree with.”



I don’t think Robert was watering anything down in his statement.
If you think that “The Catholic Church has always preached tolerance and respect to their fellow Christian churches” I would guess again if I were you; history and Church documents would tell a different story.



“We believe in many of the same things, but there are clearly major differences. Otherwise the other churches would not have separated from the Catholic Church”





The main reason the separation occurred was because of abuses of the Church.



“but let's not sugar coat the Christian world”



Or sugar coat the history of the Catholic Church.
 
Old 11-19-2008, 01:02 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,287,955 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
“Bottom line, I think you are watering down the importance of what the Catholic Church believes in for the sake of "getting along". The Catholic Church has always preached tolerance and respect to their fellow Christian churches which I agree with.”



I don’t think Robert was watering anything down in his statement.
If you think that “The Catholic Church has always preached tolerance and respect to their fellow Christian churches” I would guess again if I were you; history and Church documents would tell a different story.



“We believe in many of the same things, but there are clearly major differences. Otherwise the other churches would not have separated from the Catholic Church”





The main reason the separation occurred was because of abuses of the Church.



“but let's not sugar coat the Christian world”



Or sugar coat the history of the Catholic Church.
You are absolutely correct in your observation. I do not and will not deny the abuses of the Catholic Church in the past nor sugar coat the history of the Church. Our past is our past as stained as it was at times, but our doctrines remain. Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. That didn't mean the gates of hell wouldn't TRY to prevail against it.

The modern Catholic Church in in it's approach to other Protestant faiths is one of tolerance and respect with a emphasis on forging ahead to the goal of unity. We are brothers and sisters in Christ, but the thread asks the question: Is the Jesus's Church superior?

Allow me to use some math:

1) Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.... (John 14:6) +
2) The Church is the pillar and the foundation of the truth (1 Tim. 3:14-15) +
3) Jesus created the Catholic Church (Matthew 16:13-19) =
4) The Catholic Church is superior. (God-made, not man-made)
 
Old 11-19-2008, 01:13 PM
 
14,752 posts, read 27,627,405 times
Reputation: 8737
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
So what Protestant church do you represent? Maybe church 3 or 1034 or maybe church 13562?
That's EXACTLY why I ignore it and think, if you're reading out of the New Testament and giving the sermon/homily from those readings, it's fine. Then, the "litmus" test is: does one live their life the rest of week following those teachings. I try. No guarantess, though.

Right, way, way too many splinter groups to process. Also, juj, haven't you met fellow Catholics that are nasty and dogmatic? I haven't met TOO many, but they're out there. I've also met many people from the traditional Protestant faiths that are wonderful people, though I haven't had much occassion to get to know many Protestants.

It'll be interesting up at the "pearly gates" who is in line "ahead of us" and "behind us." I'll just try to be a good person and let off steam as I usually do, by being obnoxious. Cheers!
 
Old 11-19-2008, 01:23 PM
 
2,601 posts, read 2,995,137 times
Reputation: 3019
Be back later.

Last edited by ShinyHappyLucy; 11-19-2008 at 01:28 PM.. Reason: Edited because I know I won't be back till at least tomorrow to continue this conversation.
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