Is the Catholic Church the only true, superior Church? (traditions, believe, scriptures)

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by Morale Officer

Better check you dictionary...Jesus did start the Catholic Church.
Catholic:
1.broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal. 2.universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all. 3.pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

Better check your bible before you check a dictionary to see what Jesus did.

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by Morale Officer

Better check you dictionary...Jesus did start the Catholic Church.
Catholic:
1.broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal. 2.universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all. 3.pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

You lost me. Where does the dictionary state Christ started the Catholic church and what dictionary are you using?

[Morale Officer]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Hmmm...recovering Catholic here. I really don't want to bash Catholicism, but the arrogance of your thread deserves a rebuke.

Let's see. Is Catholicism superior? Let's examine the record:

1) Spectacular butchery of dissenters and heretics

Prots did this too

2) Suppression of learning and science

Not the only group guilty of this

3) Doctrine that either has flimsy scriptural support or is actually contradicted by scripture, including transubstantiation, celibate priests, the banning of women from the altar, and the trafficking of indulgences among many others

Once again, protestant churches are guilty of all of these except the last one.

4) The toleration and protection of pederasts, leading to the debauching of innocents

Once again, protestant churches are guilty of this.

5) The erection of grandiose churches filled with the works of the Renaissance masters, while the people of Europe starved

And the "Crystal Cathedral" is any different? Or hows about the other buildings that the Televangelists erect in their own honor?

6) The ongoing involvement of the Papacy in the internal politics of Europe

Ok, not seeing your point on that one...plenty of religious leaders and 'higher ups' have involved themselves in politics.

And the list goes on. Superior? I don't really see how you can make the case.

I can make the same case for MANY other denominations.

[cg81]

To say that Jesus is limited to a church name or denomination is missing the point. To say "the church that has the name 'Catholic' is the true church, because it goes all the way back to Peter" is the same as saying "I call myself a Christian, so I am saved".

"Fruit!"

We show by our actions or fruit if we are truly God's servant, or if we are a Christian in name only. Similarly, in order to identify the Church that Jesus started in the New Testament, we must examine the fruit to prove where the root is... we cannot prove this by name, denomination, or historical lineage. That is simply filthy rags.

[Neutral]

Originally Posted by AaronK

they are of lesser status in terms of how to be faithful to Jesus.

Originally Posted by AaronK

The Catholic Church is the Church as Jesus intended it to be

No.

[BudinAk]

Originally Posted by Morale Officer

Second...denominations mean nothing? Um...back up...you do realize that people that call themselves "Non-denominational" are actually in a denomination?

Sorry...but I beg to differ that non-denominations are "actually a denomination". You have a denomination when those comprising it largely agree on Bible translation, scripture meaning, doctrine, practices, ordnances, etc.
The various non-denominations differ to an extreme in their practices and beliefs...therefore they can hardly be called a denomination.


Bud

[Morale Officer]

Originally Posted by alicenavada

You lost me. Where does the dictionary state Christ started the Catholic church and what dictionary are you using?

Look at the definitiion of the word Catholic (I posted it). Catholic=Universal. If you are referring to the ROMAN Catholic Church, then there are those that believe Jesus did, and those that believe that Jesus didn't. I'm simply stating that if you look at the definition of the word, and look at those of us beating our heads against one another in this forum (with the exception of the non-Christians), we share a universal faith...Christianity. What I find even more funny is the "My church is better than your church" and the "my brand of Christianity is better than yours!" I notice that people ignored my question about people going to hell. I noticed that people LOVE to bash one another...especially the RC's. It's amazing to see people's thought processes. I love seeing all of these Bible quotes and people backing them up with their own interpretations. I love how people ignored (in another post) my statement about not "having it both ways" and saying they take the Bible literally and at the same time say, "Oh, it's a figure of speach." And I'm the one that gets called a "water down" Christian? But wait...I'm not a Christian, am I? Why? Because I was born and raised a Catholic, I have an open mind, I don't condemn homosexuals, I work on the Sabbath (as many Paramedic/EMT/Firefighter shirts say, "Bustin' Mine! Savin' Yours!"), I smoke, I drink, I swear, I gamble, I'm a woman and I wear slacks, have extremely short hair, I'm not married, I've never had kids, in fact I'm still a virgin, I don't go around door to door shoving my beliefs down other peoples throats, and I enjoy every minute of my completely un-Christian lifestyle...but at the same time I do all of that, I also have held the hand of the dying, worked my A$$ off to save the life of a child I KNOW to be dead, had compassion for drug dealers and drug addicts (although sometimes, I don't know why), explained to family members that their loved one is byond my help, and been compassionate to the drunk that ruined someone elses' day. But hey, at least I know that I'm finally in a career that I'm meant to be in (and I thought I wanted to be a music teacher? wow...if I only knew I was meant to be a Paramedic 11 years ago!). Oh well...time to go to Fencing Practice!

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by Morale Officer

Prots did this too -- But not nearly to the degree or the length of time of the Catholic church. All you have to do is look at the wholesale slaughter of the Huegenots in France and the Spanish Inquisition all the way back the Arian Heresy. Nothing in the Protestant experience even begins to match Catholicism's use of force and outright slaughter to enforce its will

Not the only group guilty of this -- Again, Catholicism did so in a far more systematic and comprehensive way. The fact that the Catholic church only now has issued an apologia for its treatment of Galileo speaks volumes.

Once again, protestant churches are guilty of all of these except the last one. Granted.

Once again, protestant churches are guilty of this. Oh, sure, there is the rare Protestant clergy who buggers a choir boy. However, that's really not the issue. The problem lies in a church organization that, by its own admission, not only had knowledge of thousands of these incidents by its own count, but actively moved to buy the silence of families as they shipped the offending priest off to another unsuspecting parish. In all the mainstream Protestant churches, however, there are immediate and severe consequences for a clergy caught behaving in such a fashion, including immediate defrocking and turning the offender over the authorities. If the Catholic Church had not had an amoral institutional policy to protect perverts in its ranks, half the dioceses in North America wouldn't be teetering on the brink of bankruptcy today.

And the "Crystal Cathedral" is any different? Or hows about the other buildings that the Televangelists erect in their own honor? Yet those are regarded as aberrations, not mainstream. What's more, those edifices were built by the donations of parishioners, not by dint of a mandatory tax by the church itself, which was exacted on an impoverished Europe during the Medieval period.

Ok, not seeing your point on that one...plenty of religious leaders and 'higher ups' have involved themselves in politics. Not to the extent of the Catholic Church, which had a very large secular state in Italy for centuries, raised armies, fought in wars, and devoted a great deal of time to trying to broker royal marriages to increase the Church's secular power.

I can make the same case for MANY other denominations.

Which is exactly my point. All denominations have their flaws. Yet, given some rather breathtaking lapses in the Catholic Church over the centuries and even in its most recent history, it's very hard to make the case that the Catholic Church is superior to all other churches, particularly when it has proven more fallible than most in a great number of ways.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by BudinAk

Sorry...but I beg to differ that non-denominations are "actually a denomination". You have a denomination when those comprising it largely agree on Bible translation, scripture meaning, doctrine, practices, ordnances, etc.
The various non-denominations differ to an extreme in their practices and beliefs...therefore they can hardly be called a denomination.


Bud

Eh. They're all Stealth Baptists to me. Except without any doctrinal discipline.

[beeveenh]

Nondenominational is starting to sound a lot like Catholic/universal