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Old 10-10-2008, 02:00 PM
 
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I asked my Jdub friend and he is yet to respond so I will pose it to you.

If Jesus is Michael the Arch Angel then why could he not challenge satan for the body of Moses?

(Jude 1:9)
9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Yet he rebukes satan in the wilderness
(Matthew 4:10)
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"

The word "worship" in ancient Greek text in the bible is translated as one word "proskuneo." means "to kiss the hand, bow down before, show obeisance, to worship." yet in the The New World Translation the word, "worship" has two terminologies "proskuneo." and "obeisance"

Every time Jesus comes up in the bible that shows He is being worshipped, and one time for Peter, the word "worship is translated as "obeisance" yet when the devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, angel and of course God, the word "worship" is translated as "proskuneo"

The NWT never translates the word into "worship" when it references Jesus? What is the reason for systematically changing the word "worship" every time it pertains to Jesus in your new bible when all other translations have "worship". Are you showing a bias against Jesus? Is that responsible theology?

It seems Jehovah Witnesses believed Jesus was God

On page 216 of the July 15, 1898 edition of the Watchtower magazine it says:
"Question: The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty?

Answer: Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so...It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father, and his agent in the creation of all things, including man."


I know "the light is getting brighter"Obviously you made errors in the past, but now you know more and corrections need to be made.
But if this were so, then how can the Jehovah's Witnesses trust what is being said now? If the doctrines have changed before, what's to prevent them from changing again?
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
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Michael the Archangel was recognizing The Almighty as the one w/ the authority to be ultimate judge. Not 'placed' as judge, mind you, but the one w/ the supreme right to do so. Rebuking Satan in the wilderness by saying 'go!' was no different than any one of us refusing to be tempting by Satan.

The word 'proskuneo' does indeed mean to offer obeisance and worship. It is also the same word used when a person approached a king. Therefore, we must use our discretion and common sense weather the word is referring to 'worship' as to our heavenly father or 'worship' as in showing deep respect to a person of authority. Both words were used interchangably in the scriptures. Since Jesus himself says we are to 'worship God', and did so himself through regular prayer, we have to assume that when the word is used in reference to Jesus it has the latter meaning.

The Watchtower quote makes this point as well. 'Exclusive Devotion' and prayer are reserved for God alone. Worship is not. So though I do agree that the light 'gets brighter' when it comes to certain things of God's word (the bible writers themselves were not in full understanding of the things they themselves wrote), I don't believe this is one of those things.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
Michael the Archangel was recognizing The Almighty as the one w/ the authority to be ultimate judge. Not 'placed' as judge, mind you, but the one w/ the supreme right to do so. Rebuking Satan in the wilderness by saying 'go!' was no different than any one of us refusing to be tempting by Satan.

The word 'proskuneo' does indeed mean to offer obeisance and worship. It is also the same word used when a person approached a king. Therefore, we must use our discretion and common sense weather the word is referring to 'worship' as to our heavenly father or 'worship' as in showing deep respect to a person of authority. Both words were used interchangably in the scriptures. Since Jesus himself says we are to 'worship God', and did so himself through regular prayer, we have to assume that when the word is used in reference to Jesus it has the latter meaning.

The Watchtower quote makes this point as well. 'Exclusive Devotion' and prayer are reserved for God alone. Worship is not.
Thank you BUT why use "proskuneo" for yet when the devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, angel but not Jesus?
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
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Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
Thank you BUT why use "proskuneo" for yet when the devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, angel but not Jesus?
I don't understand the question? The word is used in reference to many things in the bible.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
I don't understand the question? The word is used in reference to many things in the bible.
True except when in regards to Jesus, the worship of the satan is "proskuneo" but never Jesus. Why is that?
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
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May I ask where you get this information? The NWT is written in english, not greek.
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
May I ask where you get this information? The NWT is written in english, not greek.
I read my friend's book, but in the book you don't use the word, "worship" even though the rest of the book is in english.

You use either "proskuneo" or "obeisance" when it pertains to the word, "worship"
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
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Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
I read my friend's book, but in the book you don't use the word, "worship" even though the rest of the book is in english.

You use either "proskuneo" or "obeisance" when it pertains to the word, "worship"

What book are you speaking of? The bible? Because the NWT is only one of the bibles I use and it is by no means the only one that used 'obeisance' in place of 'worship' when the context demands.
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
What book are you speaking of? The bible? Because the NWT is only one of the bibles I use and it is by no means the only one that used 'obeisance' in place of 'worship' when the context demands.
No I said, "obeisance" for Jesus and "proskuneo" or "worship" for God, devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, angel

In the orgininal text, it is "proskuneo" yet in your new book, every time it pertains to Jesus you took out "proskuneo" and put "obeisance"
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 4,997,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
No I said, "obeisance" for Jesus and "proskuneo" or "worship" for God, devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, angel

In the orgininal text, it is "proskuneo" yet in your new book, every time it pertains to Jesus you took out "proskuneo" and put "obeisance"
What new book? I'm still confused. And if the word 'worship' was replaced with 'obeisance' I'm sure it had to do w/ the context and an uwillingness to confuse the reverence we owe Christ with that of God.
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