U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-15-2008, 09:56 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,808,279 times
Reputation: 1300

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
it's not about owing anything.

If you dont forgive then you're rejecting the principle behind forgiveness.
This is why God wont forgive you if you dont forgive others.

If you expect Him to forgive you while you're NOT forgiving others, then that's just mocking Him and His grace/mercy.

Forgiveness does comes with strings attached as you need to do it also otherwise it defeats the purpose of grace/mercy.
Fredom,
You maybe misunderstanding what I'm trying to distinguish. Christ died for the whole world (redeemed, bought back). He paid the for the sins of all people. Not one single person who has or will ever live had no deserving reason for Christ doing such a thing. That forgiveness offered has no price to it...it is offered for whole mankind, free of charge.

Jesus told a parable of the servant who's dept to the King was beyond the ability to pay. The King (out of mercy) eliminated the dept..no charge to the servant. That initial act of forgiving the dept was done at no cost to the servant, which is my point. All of us are that servant. Our debt to God was so large that it can only be completely wiped clean by God. That is the mercy and grace that so many do not understand. God himself cancelled the sins of the whole world...not just the believers.
The problem comes when many do not believe that message, which is the true message of the gospel. What you may call "strings" the bible teaches that if we do not offer freely to others what was freely given to us, God has every right to subject the ungrateful and wicked to the penelty our debts deserve. That in and of itself is not making forgiveness with "strings attached", but only dealing with the ungrateful.

Free and full forgiveness from our sins offered by God is the core message of the gospel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-16-2008, 04:54 AM
 
178 posts, read 278,554 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The short answer is no. The longer reason is to understand LDS beliefs about their ultimate goal....becoming a god. For those who would like to read why or for Mormons who would like to have "free" "no strings attached" forgiveness, I would recommend www.thecityofzion.com to learn more.
LDS doctrine, as revealed and restored through Joseph Smith by God is consistent with truth already taught in the Bible, but now often ignored or brushed over.


Psalms 82:

1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.


John 17:

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

2 Cor 3:

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Romans 8:

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 John 3:

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Revelation 3:

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.



Regarding the "no strings attached" forgiveness that you preach, I think this subject is already being adequately addressed by others on this thread.




The topic of this thread is "Are Adam and Eve married forever?"

If you would like to contribute your opinion and tell us why you believe the way you do... that would be great.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2008, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,313 posts, read 2,726,544 times
Reputation: 674
Quote:
LDS doctrine, as revealed and restored through Joseph Smith by God is consistent with truth already taught in the Bible, but now often ignored or brushed over.
As a former LDS member, I can say that this is not entirely accurate. However, there are tenets that the LDS church does adhere to which do line up with Biblical Scripture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2008, 09:00 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,808,279 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHarris View Post


The topic of this thread is "Are Adam and Eve married forever?"

If you would like to contribute your opinion and tell us why you believe the way you do... that would be great.

Thanks.
Sure,
Since Jesus is perfect and claimed to be God (not a god) he said this:

Matthew 22:29-30 and in Mark 12:24-25

Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

How much more clearer could Jesus have said it? Anyone who claims such does not know scripture, is mislead \ misleading others or the opposite is happening - Jesus is mislead\mis-leading the hearers.



2 Thessalonians 2:11
"For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie"

"LDS doctrine, as revealed and restored through Joseph Smith by God is consistent with truth already taught in the Bible, but now often ignored or brushed over."


Who is believing the delusion, those who believe there is no marriage or the ones who do?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2008, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,450,616 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Sure,
Since Jesus is perfect and claimed to be God (not a god) he said this:

Matthew 22:29-30 and in Mark 12:24-25

Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

How much more clearer could Jesus have said it? Anyone who claims such does not know scripture, is mislead \ misleading others or the opposite is happening - Jesus is mislead\mis-leading the hearers.



2 Thessalonians 2:11
"For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie"

"LDS doctrine, as revealed and restored through Joseph Smith by God is consistent with truth already taught in the Bible, but now often ignored or brushed over."


Who is believing the delusion, those who believe there is no marriage or the ones who do?
It doesn't address those that are already Married, it speaks of those that are not, and that they will not... and this is only for those that are ressurected and remain on earth. The ressurection is an earthly event.

godspeed,

freedom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2008, 09:32 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,808,279 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
It doesn't address those that are already Married, it speaks of those that are not, and that they will not... and this is only for those that are ressurected and remain on earth. The ressurection is an earthly event.

godspeed,

freedom
Freedom, what?
Its all about addressing those who are already married, not to mention married multiple times!

Matthew 22:24-28

24Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"

The answer was (and still is) there will be no marriage or people being given into marriage in heaven...meaning marriage will be a thing of the past in heaven especially once the ressurection occurs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2008, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,450,616 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Freedom, what?
Its all about addressing those who are already married, not to mention married multiple times!

Matthew 22:24-28

24Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"

The answer was (and still is) there will be no marriage or people being given into marriage in heaven...meaning marriage will be a thing of the past in heaven especially once the ressurection occurs.

You may be right, i'll have to go back and re-read.

godspeed,


freedom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2008, 04:42 PM
 
178 posts, read 278,554 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Sure,
Since Jesus is perfect and claimed to be God (not a god) he said this:

Matthew 22:29-30 and in Mark 12:24-25

Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

How much more clearer could Jesus have said it? Anyone who claims such does not know scripture, is mislead \ misleading others or the opposite is happening - Jesus is mislead\mis-leading the hearers.



2 Thessalonians 2:11
"For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie"

"LDS doctrine, as revealed and restored through Joseph Smith by God is consistent with truth already taught in the Bible, but now often ignored or brushed over."


Who is believing the delusion, those who believe there is no marriage or the ones who do?
Thanks for sharing your opinions. Much of this has already been covered in this thread. Going back to read prior posts might be beneficial. What Jesus said, and what you claim He said are two different things.

He said there is no marrying (verb) in the resurrection. He did not say there is no marriage (noun) in the resurrection.

Furthermore, Christ's discussion of this was in the context of 1 woman married to 7 different brothers under the law of Moses... a temporary law.

The law of Moses is not the law by which Latter-day Saints believe eternal marriage is a reality, nor is it the law by which Adam and Eve were married.

Following is a nice explanation of the passage to which you refer, delving into the original Greek as well.

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochure...alMarriage.pdf



You still have not addressed the question... Are Adam and Eve married forever?

We know that Adam and Eve were married by God himself while they were immortal. They fell, death entered the world. God is a God of life, I don't believe He created death... do you? Why then would death... a result of sin be an eternal anullment of the union which He created? I believe Christ fully overcame death and sin. This being true... why then would they then not be eternally married?

I believe Adam and Eve are married forever.

I also believe that through God's plan, we (NOT you and I, twin ) may be as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2008, 06:44 PM
 
178 posts, read 278,554 times
Reputation: 40
Twin,

One more thing... Jesus was not misleading the Sadducees. Rather, He was not casting His pearls before swine and very nicely answered their question. They were trying to trap him with a hypothetical situation in the setting of a miracle they didn't even believe in... the resurrection.

J. Harris
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2008, 11:02 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,808,279 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHarris View Post
You still have not addressed the question... Are Adam and Eve married forever?
No they are not because at death they (she) are released from the law of marriage. She is no longer bound to her husband. Being married to each other stops at death.

Romans 7:2 NIV
"For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage."

Romans 7:2 KJV
2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top