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Old 10-17-2008, 12:12 AM
 
2,675 posts, read 3,559,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Freedom, what?
Its all about addressing those who are already married, not to mention married multiple times!





The answer was (and still is) there will be no marriage or people being given into marriage in heaven...meaning marriage will be a thing of the past in heaven especially once the ressurection occurs.
The answer actually was[and still is]matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry,nor are given in marriage,but are as the angels of God in heaven.

There is nothing in that statement that addresses the status of those 'already married'.People wont "get married" in the resurrection,that is pretty clear.Nowhere in that verse does jesus say that marriage will be a thing of the past.Do you have any other verses supporting your position?
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:24 AM
 
3,582 posts, read 460,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
The answer actually was[and still is]matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry,nor are given in marriage,but are as the angels of God in heaven.

There is nothing in that statement that addresses the status of those 'already married'.People wont "get married" in the resurrection,that is pretty clear.Nowhere in that verse does jesus say that marriage will be a thing of the past.Do you have any other verses supporting your position?
Jesus was answering the question who's wife is she - and Jesus said they don't marry or give in marriage they are as the angels in heaven. Was he answering their question or just talking to himself about something else?
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:04 AM
 
178 posts, read 278,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
No they are not because at death they (she) are released from the law of marriage. She is no longer bound to her husband. Being married to each other stops at death.

Romans 7:2 NIV
"For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage."

Romans 7:2 KJV
2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Nearly all of Romans chapter 7 is referring to the law of Moses... again a temporary law (as already pointed out numerous times). It was by this same law that the woman was married to the seven brothers in the hypothetical situation posed to Jesus.

Romans chapter 8 on the other hand begins to speak of the law of Christ (which is the Gospel plan and involves the grace of Christ)... as opposed to the law of Moses....

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2)

Paul then goes on to speak of various blessings under the law of Christ (as opposed to the law of Moses)... one of which is as follows,

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ: if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us..." (Romans 8:16-18)

Children can grow up to become like their parents. As children of God... through the grace of Christ, we can "grow up" to become like Him.

Multiple verses I shared in an earlier post also talk of this same truth.

In regards to the law of Christ (which actually precedes the law of Moses... even going back to before the creation of Adam and Eve) Paul stated, "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." (1Cor 11:11)

Likewise, tying in to the truths taught in Romans 8:16-18, which chapter is primarily about the "law" or grace of Christ, Peter taught that husbands and wives are "heirs together of the grace of life" (1 Peter 3:7)

Therefore, together.. not alone are husbands and wives heirs of God and "joint heirs of Christ" (Romans 8:16-18).

It is under this same law of Christ which we believe man and wife can and will be forever joined together in marriage... "one flesh" as represented so perfectly in the creation of the first man and woman... which were married, I believe under the law of Christ.... and certainly not under the law of Moses... it not even yet being in existence.

As mentioned already in an earlier post... Christ said to Peter, "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.." ( Matthew 16:19)

Peter's keys of authority were under the law of Christ... not the law of Moses. We believe that when Christ said "whatsoever" He meant "whatsoever"

If one is bound to Christ under these keys of authority... the binding will be on heaven and on earth...

If a spouse is bound to his or her mate as well as to Christ under these keys of authority... being "heirs together of the grace of life".. the man not being without the woman or the woman without the man "in the Lord"... if a spouse is bound under these keys... the binding in Christ will endure on earth and in heaven.

Christ told Peter everything he bound on earth would be bound in heaven under the keys of authority of the "law" of Christ.

Paul also understood these truths.

John did as well.

Regarding the blessings God has in mind for us, John stated regarding the blessings of Christ in Revelation 5:10 "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

The reigning he is referring to is when the meek shall inherit the earth in its glorified state at a future time....

so does this blessing that John mentions not apply to women? After all... women are not kings.... furthermore... do not kings have queens?... otherwise why did John not say "princes" rather than "kings?"

Regarding this kingship... made possible through the "law" of Christ (as opposed to the law of Moses) Christ stated, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." (Rev 3:21)

Our Father in Heaven is our Eternal King... as is His Son, Jesus Christ. Genesis 5:1-2 states that man was created in the image of God... furthermore, Adam and Eve are both referred to by the singular title "Adam" in this passage.

Therefore "Adam" referring to Adam and Eve... was created in the image of God (Elohim in Hebrew)... which Elohim is the plural form of God, and as freedom pointed out also has both a masculine and feminine component in the original Hebrew.

We come from an eternal family. We are all spirit children of a loving Father in Heaven. The purpose of Life is to someday have our own eternal family unit as does our Loving Father in Heaven. In this life, we have the opportunity to enjoy in a very small and imcomplete way the same joys and hardships He experiences in the form of our own families... If it is an experience which we enjoy, magnify, and if we completely accept and trust in Christ and are bound by his keys together with Him on earth AND in heaven... these familial relationships do not end at the grave. Eternal life is not just the immortality of our own lives... but the extension through all eternity of our life through eternal increase.... only possible through the union of an eternal marriage. We come to fully know God our Father and Jesus Christ whom He sent as we become like Him as "joint-heirs" with Christ. As we inherit as children of God, Eternal Life... we bring great honor and eternal glory to our Father in Heaven for we are His literal spirit children... This is ... similar to the way in which children here on earth can bring mortal honor and glory to their mortal parents as they live honorable lives.

Adam and Eve, were created in the beginning after the image and pattern of God. They were created in the beginning after the pattern of this union.

Such is only possible for us in and through Jesus Christ... He is the way, the truth and the light.

I know this to be true.

Wonderful truths have been restored through Joseph Smith. These are consistent with truths already taught... though often less evident, in the Bible.

In closing, I have mentioned this to you in a prior post... but others may not have heard it... Job was a "perfect man." (Job 1:1). Even though he lived during a time of the law of Moses... apparantely he was a recipient of blessings more exceeding than that. In the second verse of the book of Job, we learn of his family here on earth. He had seven sons and three daughters (Job 1:2). In the trials which Job endured, he basically lost everything other than his own life. All of his children died as well. In the closing chapter of Job, he is blessed "twice as much as he had before" all of his trials. He is blessed with twice as many sheep, camels, oxen, etc. However, his other children already being physically dead... he is blessed again with seven sons and three daughters (Job 42:13). Why not twice as many as before?....

Actually, he was blessed with twice as many as before...

Twin, through Heavenly Fathers plan, families can be and are eternal.

Last edited by JNHarris; 10-17-2008 at 03:28 AM..
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,967,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHarris View Post
Nearly all of Romans chapter 7 is referring to the law of Moses... again a temporary law (as already pointed out numerous times). It was by this same law that the woman was married to the seven brothers in the hypothetical situation posed to Jesus.

Romans chapter 8 on the other hand begins to speak of the law of Christ (which is the Gospel plan and involves the grace of Christ)... as opposed to the law of Moses....

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2)

Paul then goes on to speak of various blessings under the law of Christ (as opposed to the law of Moses)... one of which is as follows,

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ: if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us..." (Romans 8:16-18)

Children can grow up to become like their parents. As children of God... through the grace of Christ, we can "grow up" to become like Him.

Multiple verses I shared in an earlier post also talk of this same truth.

In regards to the law of Christ (which actually precedes the law of Moses... even going back to before the creation of Adam and Eve) Paul stated, "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." (1Cor 11:11)

Likewise, tying in to the truths taught in Romans 8:16-18, which chapter is primarily about the "law" or grace of Christ, Peter taught that husbands and wives are "heirs together of the grace of life" (1 Peter 3:7)

Therefore, together.. not alone are husbands and wives heirs of God and "joint heirs of Christ" (Romans 8:16-18).

It is under this same law of Christ which we believe man and wife can and will be forever joined together in marriage... "one flesh" as represented so perfectly in the creation of the first man and woman... which were married, I believe under the law of Christ.... and certainly not under the law of Moses... it not even yet being in existence.

As mentioned already in an earlier post... Christ said to Peter, "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.." ( Matthew 16:19)

Peter's keys of authority were under the law of Christ... not the law of Moses. We believe that when Christ said "whatsoever" He meant "whatsoever"

If one is bound to Christ under these keys of authority... the binding will be on heaven and on earth...

If a spouse is bound to his or her mate as well as to Christ under these keys of authority... being "heirs together of the grace of life".. the man not being without the woman or the woman without the man "in the Lord"... if a spouse is bound under these keys... the binding in Christ will endure on earth and in heaven.

Christ told Peter everything he bound on earth would be bound in heaven under the keys of authority of the "law" of Christ.

Paul also understood these truths.

John did as well.

Regarding the blessings God has in mind for us, John stated regarding the blessings of Christ in Revelation 5:10 "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

The reigning he is referring to is when the meek shall inherit the earth in its glorified state at a future time....

so does this blessing that John mentions not apply to women? After all... women are not kings.... furthermore... do not kings have queens?... otherwise why did John not say "princes" rather than "kings?"

Regarding this kingship... made possible through the "law" of Christ (as opposed to the law of Moses) Christ stated, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." (Rev 3:21)

Our Father in Heaven is our Eternal King... as is His Son, Jesus Christ. Genesis 5:1-2 states that man was created in the image of God... furthermore, Adam and Eve are both referred to by the singular title "Adam" in this passage.

Therefore "Adam" referring to Adam and Eve... was created in the image of God (Elohim in Hebrew)... which Elohim is the plural form of God, and as freedom pointed out also has both a masculine and feminine component in the original Hebrew.

We come from an eternal family. We are all spirit children of a loving Father in Heaven. The purpose of Life is to someday have our own eternal family unit as does our Loving Father in Heaven. In this life, we have the opportunity to enjoy in a very small and imcomplete way the same joys and hardships He experiences in the form of our own families... If it is an experience which we enjoy, magnify, and if we completely accept and trust in Christ and are bound by his keys together with Him on earth AND in heaven... these familial relationships do not end at the grave. Eternal life is not just the immortality of our own lives... but the extension through all eternity of our life through eternal increase.... only possible through the union of an eternal marriage. We come to fully know God our Father and Jesus Christ whom He sent as we become like Him as "joint-heirs" with Christ. As we inherit as children of God, Eternal Life... we bring great honor and eternal glory to our Father in Heaven for we are His literal spirit children... This is ... similar to the way in which children here on earth can bring mortal honor and glory to their mortal parents as they live honorable lives.

Adam and Eve, were created in the beginning after the image and pattern of God. They were created in the beginning after the pattern of this union.

Such is only possible for us in and through Jesus Christ... He is the way, the truth and the light.

I know this to be true.

Wonderful truths have been restored through Joseph Smith. These are consistent with truths already taught... though often less evident, in the Bible.

In closing, I have mentioned this to you in a prior post... but others may not have heard it... Job was a "perfect man." (Job 1:1). Even though he lived during a time of the law of Moses... apparantely he was a recipient of blessings more exceeding than that. In the second verse of the book of Job, we learn of his family here on earth. He had seven sons and three daughters (Job 1:2). In the trials which Job endured, he basically lost everything other than his own life. All of his children died as well. In the closing chapter of Job, he is blessed "twice as much as he had before" all of his trials. He is blessed with twice as many sheep, camels, oxen, etc. However, his other children already being physically dead... he is blessed again with seven sons and three daughters (Job 42:13). Why not twice as many as before?....

Actually, he was blessed with twice as many as before...

Twin, through Heavenly Fathers plan, families can be and are eternal.

This all sounds wonderful, until I get to the red highlighted area.
It appears that a family member can, through their action or inaction, break that eternal bond.
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:01 PM
 
2,675 posts, read 3,559,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Jesus was answering the question who's wife is she - and Jesus said they don't marry or give in marriage they are as the angels in heaven. Was he answering their question or just talking to himself about something else?
If you dont like the answer jesus gave you will have to take that up with him.If you think the verse was translated incorrectly you can take that up with king james.I am only responding to what the verse 'actually,clearly,'says.

I find it interesting that 'twin' quoted the question directly from scripture and then paraphrased ,distorting in the process what jesus actually said in response,to try and prove her point.If you have at your disposal the exact quote of the question it would seem logical that the exact quote of the answer would be just as available.If i find a quote from jesus to be helpful to an argument i would use it but if it werent i wouldnt modify the words of jesus to 'what i thought he meant'to try and prove a point.
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:54 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,833,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
If you dont like the answer jesus gave you will have to take that up with him.If you think the verse was translated incorrectly you can take that up with king james.I am only responding to what the verse 'actually,clearly,'says.

I find it interesting that 'twin' quoted the question directly from scripture and then paraphrased ,distorting in the process what jesus actually said in response,to try and prove her point.If you have at your disposal the exact quote of the question it would seem logical that the exact quote of the answer would be just as available.If i find a quote from jesus to be helpful to an argument i would use it but if it werent i wouldnt modify the words of jesus to 'what i thought he meant'to try and prove a point.

"I find it interesting that 'twin' quoted the question directly from scripture and then paraphrased ,distorting in the process what jesus actually said in response,to try and prove her point"

Two small reactions\thoughts:
1. you had a 50\50 chance of his\her....nice try
2. I think that is probably the best process of explaining how one can come to believe in eternal marriages, having eternal families, becoming a god of their own planet ect. I would just change 'twin' to 'Mormons'
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:59 AM
 
178 posts, read 278,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
This all sounds wonderful, until I get to the red highlighted area.
It appears that a family member can, through their action or inaction, break that eternal bond.
Oakback, you have asked a deep question. If the bond has been sealed eternal by the power of God, ONLY the power of God can break or annul it. Peter was anciently trusted with the keys of this power and authority.

The bond is not sealed eternal but is conditionally sealed eternal when covenants, or promises are first entered into with God... 2 Peter 1:3-10 talks of this. Thus Peter states in 2 Peter 1:3 the saints had been "called.. to glory and virtue." Peter further states that BY exceedlingly great and precious promises (covenants are promises) which had been given unto them, the saints MIGHT BE partakers of divine nature. Note that THE PROMISES are a key vehicle to deliver the promised blessings (2 Peter 1:3-10). Latter-day revelation confirms, as alluded to by Peter in this passage that partaking of this nature is done "grace by grace." Peter concludes this particular aspect of this passage by saying, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure.." (2 Peter 1:3-10).

In discussing this, it should always be kept in mind what Paul shared, "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the Love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38-39)

The Love of God is far deeper, far more penetrating, far more enduring and far more encompassing than most of us realize, apparently, penetrating even to the depths of hell. None of us in mortality can or do comprehend fully the Love or Power of God.

Oakback, if you would like to PM me, feel free to do so. I will not discuss my beliefs regarding this particular aspect of this topic further in this public forum.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:09 AM
 
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No, Jesus told us clearly that there is no marriage in Eternity.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:15 AM
 
178 posts, read 278,835 times
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Default The Family: A Proclamation to the World

For those of you that might be interested, Following is an official statement from the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regarding our beliefs about the family. This may clarify much better than I can much of what I have said.



We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshipped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny as heirs of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.

Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. “Children are an heritage of the Lord” (Psalm 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, and to teach them to love and serve one another, observe the commandments of God, and be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:16 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,554,370 times
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Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
Nowhere in that verse does jesus say that marriage will be a thing of the past.Do you have any other verses supporting your position?
Give me one scripture that mentions any kind of marriage in heaven other than the wedding of the entire church to the Lamb of God. Name any instance of a wife or husband of an angel or any other being in Heaven. BTW it's not only poor English but disrespectful not to capitalize Jesus.
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