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Old 10-14-2008, 05:11 AM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,444,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aiangel_writer View Post


do you think we can get to heaven with belief alone?

I alway thought if we believed Jesus was who He said He was, that He died for our sins on the Cross, and arose and ascended into Heaven we were considered believers. But, then again, we must ask Him to come into our lives to be saved, which is a work that justifies faith?

Comments anyone?

Uh, yeah: It just keeps getting more and more complicated. June figures that even IF she had a shot at this, that at fifty-something, it could take her another forty years just to "get it" at which point, she'd have run out of time. (Not that June's overly concerned with heaven, mind you, but the requirements seem to be getting more and more stringent as time goes on.)

Poor June.

Perhaps she'll have to be content with ending up where the geese go. Either that, or she may just fade into, and become infused with the one barely audible note in such a way whereby there no longer exists any self-differentiation...
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:49 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,039,494 times
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James 2:14-26
Faith and Deeds

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

***********************

Even satan and his demons acknowledge that God exists. They just choose to not have faith in God and Jesus. They refuse to kneel before God and surrender their will to Him.

So, considering the passage, do you think we can get to heaven with belief alone?

I alway thought if we believed Jesus was who He said He was, that He died for our sins on the Cross, and arose and ascended into Heaven we were considered believers. But, then again, we must ask Him to come into our lives to be saved, which is a work that justifies faith?


Good Morning.....aiangel_writer!

Well faith is more than an intellectual belief in God. If that belief does not lead us to a holy life of righteousness and mercy, it is not a saving faith.

Encouraging words are good, but if one stops short of loving deeds, we fall short of Christlikeness.
Without obedience faith would be incomplete. Faith leads one into action of what God is doing on the inside.

I see that in this which I believe gets some people trip up because of Paul's teachings of salvation by faith.
I have seen arguments on here about works doesn't save one, which is true, but works is the evidents of faith working outward of one's salvation.

Here in this scripture Jame's deep concern for the practical outcome of Christian faith may seem to oppose Paul's emphasis on salvation by faith alone. Jame's position, however, is not an attack on salvation by faith; it is a protest against hypocrisy. He wants the world to know that faith is a transforming force. Salvation by faith results in holy living. This does not contradict Paul's teaching.. it complements it. The two emphases are the two facets of a full orbed Christian faith- redemption and holy living.

James does not contradict Paul's message that salvation is by faith alone. Rather, he stresses that faith which does not result in good works is a faith that will not live. The believer is saved by faith in Christ alone, but genuine faith will be accompanied by good work's.

I bold the "transforming force" because that is the grace of God working in that life that people see... because of one is obeying God. If one believes what Scripture teaches and if you live by its guidelines, then other's will see a life change.

Your question about can one get to heaven just on belief alone... well what I see is if one truly believes in God, and one who has genuinely repented and ask Christ into their heart that life will change.
This going to be a bold statement but.....I have seen individuals who profess to be Christians, yet I see them walking and continue to walk in unforgiveness, lying, contention, anger, partiality, and so forth and they do, do things for other's, (and the world does this also) but the truth is there has not been a transforming change in one's life into God's love, mercy and holiness. It's the heart changed that one see in the outward actions.

So no I don't believe one can go to heaven just because they believe, the scripture testifies this that even demons believe.....Genuine Christian faith in Christ alone will and must result in recognizable holy living.
When God forgives us and accepts us as righteous, He also enables us to live a righteous life. As obediences was crucial to Abraham's relationship as the friend of God, so it is to our relationship as a friend of God's Son.
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,459 posts, read 21,199,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
Uh, yeah: It just keeps getting more and more complicated. June figures that even IF she had a shot at this, that at fifty-something, it could take her another forty years just to "get it" at which point, she'd have run out of time. (Not that June's overly concerned with heaven, mind you, but the requirements seem to be getting more and more stringent as time goes on.)

Poor June.

Perhaps she'll have to be content with ending up where the geese go. Either that, or she may just fade into, and become infused with the one barely audible note in such a way whereby there no longer exists any self-differentiation...
June, let us begin with John 3:16..There you will find that God is not complicated..June already does plenty of works according to The Word (meaning Christ, not the bible) I should not be preaching..period..but many if not most of the time the word is Christ, not the bible..

Sorry Aiangel for being off topic..I will now just sit back and
It's just that I take every opportunity to offer warm milk
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:51 AM
 
Location: USA
1,244 posts, read 2,821,039 times
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What came to my mind as I read the scripture is Matthew 25:31-46

The Sheep and the Goats

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.


34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

To say we have faith is to say we believe in God and believe in His word. His word is full of instructions on who we should live and what our character should be like. To say we have faith and believe in God's word means that there will be signs of us at the very least trying to adopt that Christlike character that God's word so beautifully puts out there for us to see and learn from.

To me, faith without works is dead, simply means that if we truly have faith, our lives will demonstrate this. No we are not perfect, but we should be on the path of being perfected by Christ. Such will manifest changes in our lives. If, however, we continue to live as the world and there are no changes in our lives, if we live as selfish islands unto ourselves with little regard for our brothers and sisters, our faith is dead because if we had the true faith that the bible talks about, our actions would reflect what God desires from His children. Again, maybe not in perfection, but at the very least in heartfelt sincere attempts and desires.

Faith without works is dead.. perhaps to better understand what that means we should look at the opposite, faith with works is alive... alive faith... following the word of God, reading and studying it daily, growing spiritually, serving others, loving others, praying and maintaining an active vibrant relationship with our Lord, growing our character into Christ's character, dying to ourselves. Holding to what the bible tells us clearly is faith in Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

One of the works of faith is nothing more than putting Hebrews 11:1 into practice take for example when we pray. Faith is believing that our prayers are heard and answered by our Heavenly Father, even though the answer may not have been what we wanted, but trusting that it is what God wanted.

Faith without works is going to God in prayer, asking for something, giving something up to Him, closing out our prayer and then walking away full of doubt that God has heard or will answer or will take care of the situation according to His will.

Therefore, in short, to me, faith without works is dead simply means that it is a faith in word only with no application, practical or not, of what we claim to have faith in. Faith that is true and alive not only believes, but applies that faith throughout our daily lives, in our actions, in our character, in our thoughts, etc.
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:29 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,039,494 times
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I thought this was kind of neat, that my devotion was about this thread. So I'm posting a part of it... the part that goes along with what we are discussing here about faith.

It is based on Heb.11:6

Faith is the biblical response to the truth, and believing truth is a choice. Faith is something you decide to do , not something you feel like doing . Believing the truth doesn't make it true; it's true, so we believe it.
One can not create reality through what we believe. We can only respond to reality.

Faith must have an object. It's not the idea that you merely "believe" that counts; it's what or who you believe in that counts. Everybody believes in something, and everybody walks by faith according to what he or she believes. But if what you believe isn't true, then how you live won't be right. Thus, "Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17).

The path of truth begins with the truth of God's Word. Believe the truth and walk by faith according to God's word.

We can't decide for ourselves what we would like to believe and then believe it, expecting God to respond to our faith. God is under no obligation to man.
God is obligated only to Himself. He will always stay true to Himself and keep His Word and His covenants with mankind. It is not our place to determine what is true or try to persuade God to capitulate to our will. He is the truth. We are to ask according to His will and desire His will above all else.
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