Trinity - How can Jesus be God if he is the Son of God? (Messiah, pray) - - Page 10 - City-Data Forum

Fundamentalist · 10-14-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorado0359

I just stated it. What are you talking about?

You don't know what you are talking about is what I am saying. I am a protestant who is also a fundamentalist and we certainly do not believe in the "Eucharist".

alicenevada · 10-14-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal

(John 8:58)
58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

The Jews understood Him saying it? Why can't you? and again Jesus doesn't recant.

Oh! and by the way I did some research on "Word is (a) god", rather than God. It is a presupposition.

You don't think they were throwing stones at him because he claimed to be God's son? God's son existed before Abraham as well since he was the 'firstborn of all creation'. As far as I can see, there was nothing for him to recant.

Presupposition? How so? A greek friend of mine explained it and I thought he made it quite clear. It is only a presupposition if it has no merit. And evidently, many translators feel it has merit.

Fundamentalist · 10-14-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alicenavada

You don't think they were throwing stones at him because he claimed to be God's son? God's son existed before Abraham as well since he was the 'firstborn of all creation'. As far as I can see, there was nothing for him to recant.

Presupposition? How so? A greek friend of mine explained it and I thought he made it quite clear. It is only a presupposition if it has no merit. And evidently, many translators feel it has merit.

Seriously....where do you see that? and where is that verse?

alicenevada · 10-14-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal

Seriously....where do you see that? and where is that verse?

I'm sorry, what verse?

gwynedd1 · 10-14-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorado0359

It makes absolutely no sense and In my opinon goes against the very nature or God to base mans eternal existance upon reading, studying ancient books and believing who God is and His nature from a group of corrupt Priests, Bishops and other flawed human beings. Christianity and most religions in general survives off of those who have blind faith, and utilizes fear to keep people under subjection of the religion. For example: Lie and go to hell...steal and go to hell...don't believe in Jesus and go to hell...fornicate and go to hell.... and the list goes on.

Hi dorado0359,

Based upon this statement I would have guessed logically anyone believing this would have remained silent unless of course they are without flaw. Such a person would spell "opinion" or "existence" correctly.

Fundamentalist · 10-14-2008, 02:30 PM

God's son existed before Abraham as well since he was the 'firstborn of all creation'.

What verse is that? I mean I know what it means. My question is if you don't take the entire bible literally as I do then how can you know what is literal and what isn't especially from that verse Paul talk of Jesus.

not "IN" all, "OF" all. "He is before all things and in him all things hold together."

alicenevada · 10-14-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal

God's son existed before Abraham as well since he was the 'firstborn of all creation'.

What verse is that?

Col. 1:15 I believe 'He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation'...

Like I said before, the things that are literal and the things that are figurative are usually clearly defined by the context. And do you really take the entire bible as literal? Even the visions in Revelation?

Fundamentalist · 10-14-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alicenavada

Col. 1:15 I believe 'He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation'...

Like I said before, the things that are literal and the things that are figurative are usually clearly defined by the context. And do you really take the entire bible as literal? Even the visions in Revelation?

YES! and yes I do the visions as well, that is what John saw. As far as us interpreting revelations is a waist of time to me, it is enough to know Jesus is coming back.

When Jesus said, "I am" where did you get Him telling them He is the Son of God in that passage?. Only one person ever stated the same and that was God. The Jews knew that verse like none other. Jesus knew what He was doing when profoundly stating, "I am"

Fundamentalist · 10-14-2008, 02:42 PM

In John 1 He is overtly called "God." In Hebrews 1 He is said to be the one who "laid the foundations of the earth." In the very last chapter of the Bible Christ refers to Himself as "the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." The whole of Scripture precludes the possibility that Christ could be anything other than the preexistent sovereign of the universe.

alicenevada · 10-14-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal

YES! and yes I do the visions as well, that is what John saw. As far as us interpreting revelations is a waist of time to me, it is enough to know Jesus is coming back.

When Jesus said, "I am" where did you get Him telling them He is the Son of God in that passage?. Only one person ever stated the same and that was God. The Jews knew that verse like none other. Jesus knew what He was doing when profoundly stating, "I am"

Hmmm, interesting. Even though it says they're visions and dreams? I've never heard anyone say that.

I doubt seriously that Jehovah is the only person in bible times who said 'I am'. I'm sure people said it all the time. Remember, Jah was using it as a title...Jesus simply stated he had existed before Abraham. Remember, the capital letters in the KJ bible, were added later. Alot of bibles do not contain them. Therefore, it loses alot of its significance in relation to the earlier text. The question put to Jesus had to do with age, not identity.