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Old 10-13-2008, 11:20 PM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,034,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
From your definition Jesus was a puppet, and did not grow from grace to grace... you see... scripture says that He did not receive a fulness at first.

godspeed,


freedom

Hello freedom,

I see. Then if one having epilepsy has their corpus callosum severed which is the puppet of the other the right or left brain?
Also if a lion is born of a lion and Jesus was begotten from God would not the lion by its nature hunt like a lion and Jesus being born from God do by his very nature the things of God?
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:35 PM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,034,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Thank you all for your thoughts. Did anyone actually read the site?

I will generally read sites that are given because I have a curiosity to know and to learn even if I don't agree with what is being said.

I always have had a problem with trying to bend the 3 persons being equal to one God, and I am giving up trying. I will hold Jesus to when he says the Father is greater than he is, and when he says he is the son of God. Also there are too many scriptures where it is obvious that Jesus is separate from God. How can he sit at the right hand of God if he is God, once they are in heaven both Spirit if they are the same they wouldn't be separate entities.


Freedom/Shana,

When reading this site and following the scriptures you can see where translation has been used to uphold theology.
Hello meerkat2,

Where does it imply Jesus is separate from God?
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Old 10-14-2008, 12:07 AM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,034,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
One of the whole, as we are to be One... Jesus taught that we may be one as He and the Father are one... One is One.

godspeed,

freedom
Hi freedom,

We are adopted sons while he was begotten meaning his source was eternal deity while we were created. Again my fundamental criticism of those that make comments on what one God is is they don't realize what "one" is. What in the real world has essential oneness? One tree has many leaves, one man has two eyes, one house has many rooms. All one is is a human construct for the particular context. The pottery does not have a good construct of the potter that is for sure.
My heart beats quite independently of me and so do I breath independently though I may do it consciously when I choose for the latter. Are those puppets? Many things operate within me that are not in the conscious mind but are essential to me and all follow the will to live and it in that case the same will. Is my own heart me?
So to define what one God means I would like one simple example that God is one of what? Is God a contiguous deified blob of some sort perhaps? What connects God from one end to the other? For me we could arbitrarily define my flesh but then I could lose a finger or have a stroke. Its gets real fuzzy. One is as irrational as three IMHO.
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Old 10-14-2008, 12:09 AM
 
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I've always thought of the Trinity concept as being something to make Christianity attractive to the Romans who had previously followed a polytheistic belief system.
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Old 10-14-2008, 12:28 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,676,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
He can't be the Son of God and the Father of himself...

the "trinity doctrine" is flawed beyond belief... it is not what Jesus taught.

Jesus said "I can do nothing but what i seeth the Father do".

godspeed,


freedom
1. The Bible states there are three that bare record in heaven, the Father, the word (Jesus), and the holy ghost, and these three are one.
2. And that is why Jesus said why ask me to show you the Father, if you have seen me you have seen the Father.
3. And that is why when Thomas saw Jesus after he died on the cross, Thomas said to Him, "my Lord and my God".
4. And that is why God said during creation, let (US) make man in (OUR) image and in (OUR) likeness.
5. And that is why when the God of the Old Testament said He made the Earth (alone and by Himself), the New Testament correctly states that it was Jesus that made the earth and all things.

There is only one God, but He exist in three person as stated in the Scriptures.
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:33 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,417 posts, read 29,545,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
1. The Bible states there are three that bare record in heaven, the Father, the word (Jesus), and the holy ghost, and these three are one.
2. And that is why Jesus said why ask me to show you the Father, if you have seen me you have seen the Father.
3. And that is why when Thomas saw Jesus after he died on the cross, Thomas said to Him, "my Lord and my God".
4. And that is why God said during creation, let (US) make man in (OUR) image and in (OUR) likeness.
5. And that is why when the God of the Old Testament said He made the Earth (alone and by Himself), the New Testament correctly states that it was Jesus that made the earth and all things.

There is only one God, but He exist in three person as stated in the Scriptures.
Yes I agree. Matthew 3:16-17 is a perfect example of all three present and active at the same time.
Jesus told Philip in John 14:9 anyone who has seen Me has see the Father
John 10:30 Jesus said The Father and I are one. Which I believe is the strongest statement made by Jesus that He is God. God and Jesus are not the same person, but they are one in essence and nature. This why the religious leaders wanted Him dead, because of His claim to be God.
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 4,996,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
I've always thought of the Trinity concept as being something to make Christianity attractive to the Romans who had previously followed a polytheistic belief system.
Very close to history actually...
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,455,573 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hello freedom,

I see. Then if one having epilepsy has their corpus callosum severed which is the puppet of the other the right or left brain?
Also if a lion is born of a lion and Jesus was begotten from God would not the lion by its nature hunt like a lion and Jesus being born from God do by his very nature the things of God?
We are all made in God's image, and all of us have the seed of God the Father within us, Jesus nor us ever have our freedom of choice taken from us, but we can choose to follow the nature of God or not.

godspeed,



freedom
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:49 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,452,213 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
I've always thought of the Trinity concept as being something to make Christianity attractive to the Romans who had previously followed a polytheistic belief system.
Not even close...Let us make man in "our" image? Who was God walking to?

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.”

If Jesus is a created being, then how could His death be sufficient for ALL the sins of mankind- past. present, future.
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,455,573 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi freedom,

We are adopted sons while he was begotten meaning his source was eternal deity while we were created. Again my fundamental criticism of those that make comments on what one God is is they don't realize what "one" is. What in the real world has essential oneness? One tree has many leaves, one man has two eyes, one house has many rooms. All one is is a human construct for the particular context. The pottery does not have a good construct of the potter that is for sure.
My heart beats quite independently of me and so do I breath independently though I may do it consciously when I choose for the latter. Are those puppets? Many things operate within me that are not in the conscious mind but are essential to me and all follow the will to live and it in that case the same will. Is my own heart me?
So to define what one God means I would like one simple example that God is one of what? Is God a contiguous deified blob of some sort perhaps? What connects God from one end to the other? For me we could arbitrarily define my flesh but then I could lose a finger or have a stroke. Its gets real fuzzy. One is as irrational as three IMHO.
One is a spiritual oneness, and a physical uniqueness. Jesus sits at the right hand of God, they are one, but occupy different space. As we can be one and occupy different space.

When Stephen was being martyred he saw two distinct beings.. Jesus and God the Father. Though they are one spiritually, they are separate personages.

godspeed,

freedom
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