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Old 10-14-2008, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,573,273 times
Reputation: 843

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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
little elmer, you must spread rep b4 1stborn3x8 can get it...
LoL

Blessings to you LE
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,573,273 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
Your question sounds a lot like Mormon beliefs that Jesus and Satan were brothers. As another poster stated, Satan (Lucifer) was the highest archangel in heaven. Jesus is part of the Trinity, He is God, and yet He is also the Son of God. Let's not forget the Holy Spirit. It's a tough concept to fathom in our finiteness.
Did you read the other posts in this thread? There is no scriptural support for a fallen archangel named Lucifer - it's all church tradition (Thanks Jerome).
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:31 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,776,332 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Did you read the other posts in this thread? There is no scriptural support for a fallen archangel named Lucifer - it's all church tradition (Thanks Jerome).
I absolutely agree firstborne. This is another false teaching by the church in my opinion. Satan was created by God to accomplish his purpose. He was not some great angel who lived in God`s presence only to decide he was greater than God and convinced 1/3 of the angels to leave heaven and follow him.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:12 AM
 
3,581 posts, read 457,400 times
Reputation: 386
It wouldn't bode well if for the rest of eternity we are always wondering when the next rebellion was going to be.

Firstborn thanks for all your info - much appreciated!!!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to firstborn888 again.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities
3,570 posts, read 7,785,050 times
Reputation: 5973
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Did you read the other posts in this thread? There is no scriptural support for a fallen archangel named Lucifer - it's all church tradition (Thanks Jerome).

This still sounds like Mormon doctrine. There is no proof that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:28 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,459,929 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
I absolutely agree firstborne. This is another false teaching by the church in my opinion. Satan was created by God to accomplish his purpose. He was not some great angel who lived in God`s presence only to decide he was greater than God and convinced 1/3 of the angels to leave heaven and follow him.
Quote:
Did you read the other posts in this thread? There is no scriptural support for a fallen archangel named Lucifer - it's all church tradition (Thanks Jerome).
It is true that there is no verse or passage in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,” but an examination of several passages reveals that Lucifer can be none other than Satan. The fall of Lucifer described in (Isaiah 14:12)

12 "How you have fallen from heaven,
O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations!
13 "But you said in your heart,
'I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.
14 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;

I will make myself like the Most High."

Jesus
referred to in (Luke 10:18):
"I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. A similar fall is depicted in Ezekiel 28.

(Genesis 3:5) Satan talking to Eve about aspiring to be her own God. How did Satan know how to get at Eve if he didn't want to achieve it himself

If you don't believe in Satan or that Satan was a fallen angel, that's fine. But don't make such a rediculous claim that there is no such scripture to support it. Because there is and more where this came from.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:54 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,566,517 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
If you don't believe in Satan or that Satan was a fallen angel, that's fine. But don't make such a rediculous claim that there is no such scripture to support it. Because there is and more where this came from.
I think it's more important to know what role he plays in our lives, and the rule God has over him. I could care less where a defensive lineman was born if he was about to tackle me.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:37 PM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,378,433 times
Reputation: 141
Default The Thorn in my Flesh.

The Thorn in my Flesh.

Hosea 6: 1 – 11; II Cor. 7 - 10 1Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath thorn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
23And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
24Saying, are thou Jesus of Nazareth? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
John 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 26And when the unclean spirit had torn him,25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

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Old 10-15-2008, 09:45 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,776,332 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
It is true that there is no verse or passage in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,” but an examination of several passages reveals that Lucifer can be none other than Satan. The fall of Lucifer described in (Isaiah 14:12)

12 "How you have fallen from heaven,
O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations!
13 "But you said in your heart,
'I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.
14 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."

Jesus referred to in (Luke 10:18):
"I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. A similar fall is depicted in Ezekiel 28.

(Genesis 3:5) Satan talking to Eve about aspiring to be her own God. How did Satan know how to get at Eve if he didn't want to achieve it himself

If you don't believe in Satan or that Satan was a fallen angel, that's fine. But don't make such a rediculous claim that there is no such scripture to support it. Because there is and more where this came from.
I know it is hard to let go of church taught doctrines but we have to if we want to know the truth. First of all, the 14`th chapter of Isaiah is talking about the king of babylon and even mentions that at the beginning of the chapter..see verse 4. Somehow in the middle of this he turns into someone called lucifer. Secondly,lucifer is not a hebrew word which is the language Isaiah was written. The hebrew word there actually means howl. It itsn`t a proper name for the devil aka lucifer. Nowhere in scripture is that old serpent called lucifer or any other proper name. It takes a lot of stretching of scripture and insuating to even infer this..just like the church taught trinity doctrine. The church takes liberty with a lot of scripture to propogate some of their doctrine...well if you infer this and you infer that then you come to this conclusion..amazing. Like most misinformed and misled church followers it comes down to studying scripture... looking at the original language it was written in and not the mistranslated English version. Lucifer is not a Hebrew word. There are plenty of scriptures that plainly state that God created the devil for a purpose. But none that say the devil was at some point the greatest angel who decided at some point that he wanted to be greater than God. The devil absolutely knows his place and he absolutely knows that God is his creator. The devil didn`t create evil. God did. There is nothing..absolutely nothing...that has been created that wasn`t created by God Almighty. This is God`s creation and he knows exactly what he`s doing and his will shall be done in God`s time. There is nothing the devil has done to change that or surprise God by deciding he wanted to change the course of history by falling from heaven or anywhere else. God created the devil and he knew what he was doing. God didn`t make a mistake by creating that old serpent. He will fullfill his purpose.

Last edited by spm62; 10-15-2008 at 11:13 PM..
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:16 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,459,929 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
I know it is hard to let go of church taught doctrines but we have to if we want to know the truth. First of all, the 14`th chapter of Isaiah is talking about the king of babylon and even mentions that at the beginning of the chapter..see verse 4. Somehow in the middle of this he turns into someone called lucifer. Secondly,lucifer is not a hebrew word which is the language Isaiah was written. The hebrew word there actually means howl. It itsn`t a proper name for the devil aka lucifer. Nowhere in scripture is that old serpent called lucifer or any other proper name. It takes a lot of stretching of scripture and insuating to even infer this..just like the church taught trinity doctrine. The church takes liberty with a lot of scripture to propogate some of their doctrine...well if you infer this and you infer that then you come to this conclusion..amazing. Like most misinformed and misled church followers it comes down to studying scripture... looking at the original language it was written in and not the mistranslated English version. Lucifer is not a Hebrew word. There are plenty of scriptures that plainly state that God created the devil for a purpose. But none that say the devil was at some point the greatest angel who decided at some point that he wanted to be greater than God. The devil absolutely knows his place and he absolutely knows that God is his creator. The devil didn`t create evil. God did. There is nothing..absolutely nothing...that has been created that wasn`t created by God Almighty. This is God`s creation and he knows exactly what he`s doing and his will shall be done in God`s time. There is nothing the devil has done to change that or surprise God by deciding he wanted to change the course of history by falling from heaven or anywhere else. God created the devil and he knew what he was doing. God didn`t make a mistake by creating that old serpent. He will fullfill his purpose.
I love guys like you and I should take your word for it?????? that you yourself aren't stretching scripture??????

I think you are so way off it isn't even funny. Of course this all God's pre ordained plan including the devil. The devil didn't put a cog in God's plan. The church teaches the devil is defeated, he is the accuser, that's it. You are spouting some beliefs of the devil that is NOT taught in the church.
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