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Old 10-15-2008, 03:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
Absolutely not. He is my friend. My friends don't find me vile and wretched. I can't help the fact that I'm a sinner. It's inherited...and He knows this.
So why does he say, ALL our good works are like filthy rags to Him. Imagine saying that to your child.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
So why does he say, ALL our good works are like filthy rags to Him. Imagine saying that to your child.
If he truly didnt value good works, why did he call Abraham his friend? Why are the scriptures full of people who 'found favor' in God's eyes due to the fact that they 'worked what was Good toward God.'?
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
If he truly didnt value good works, why did he call Abraham his friend? Why are the scriptures full of people who 'found favor' in God's eyes due to the fact that they 'worked what was Good toward God.'?
Because Jesus died for them as well....God saw Abraham as righteous through the blood of Christ, even Lott who committed a sinful act by offering his daughters to the men outside. God saw him as a righteous man as well yet Lott wasn't seeking righteousness.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
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Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
Because Jesus died for them as well....God saw Abraham as righteous through the blood of Christ, even Lott who committed a sinful act by offering his daughters to the men outside. God saw him as a righteous man as well yet Lott wasn't seeking righteousness.
So if Jesus died for me, why would God feel that I was any less than those? You seem to think God doesnt appreciate the good things we do. He loves us for seeking him first. That's why it's said that if we 'seek righteousness, all those other things will be added to you'. Because if we do put God first, he takes care of us. Pure and simple.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
So if Jesus died for me, why would God feel that I was any less than those? You seem to think God doesnt appreciate the good things we do. He loves us for seeking him first. That's why it's said that if we 'seek righteousness, all those other things will be added to you'. Because if we do put God first, he takes care of us. Pure and simple.
How many times have you sinned? can your good deeds outweigh your sins? therefore how can God see you as a good person. That's like a criminal accused of rape saying to a judge, I have done good deeds. Can't you appreciate that? All the judge sees is a rapist.

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING we can do to enter heaven. It is ONLY by His grace. Seeking Him first is seeking righteousness but let me reiterate

(Isaiah 64:5-7)
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Without the blood of Christ every man, woman and child on this planet is damned. To seek righteousness is seeking the blood of Christ also.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
So if Jesus died for me, why would God feel that I was any less than those? You seem to think God doesnt appreciate the good things we do. He loves us for seeking him first. That's why it's said that if we 'seek righteousness, all those other things will be added to you'. Because if we do put God first, he takes care of us. Pure and simple.
You are not less than them but you must remember their program of salvation is different from ours. They believed in God, they believed of the coming messiah therefore they believed what was revealed to them.

We are different we have the entire revelation, when Jesus said, it was finished. All was done. We have the OT and NT and we have the cross. Once you seek the cross you will be seen as righteous through the eyes of God.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
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Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
How many times have you sinned? can your good deeds outweigh your sins? therefore how can God see you as a good person. That's like a criminal accused of rape saying to a judge, I have done good deeds. Can't you appreciate that? All the judge sees is a rapist.

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING we can do to enter heaven. It is ONLY by His grace. Seeking Him first is seeking righteousness but let me reiterate

(Isaiah 64:5-7)
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Without the blood of Christ every man, woman and child on this planet is damned. To seek righteousness is seeking the blood of Christ also.
Ahhh, I see what you're saying. You think the only reason a human would practice good works is to make up for sinning? It doesnt occur to you that there are millions of people out there that practice good because they love God and want to please Him? That is my motive. I have no hope of ever paying God back for the mercy He has shown me. I can't buy my everlasting life but I can 'observe His commandments' and them not be 'burdensome'.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:35 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,451,056 times
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Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
Ahhh, I see what you're saying. You think the only reason a human would practice good works is to make up for sinning? It doesnt occur to you that there are millions of people out there that practice good because they love God and want to please Him? That is my motive. I have no hope of ever paying God back for the mercy He has shown me. I can't buy my everlasting life but I can 'observe His commandments' and them not be 'burdensome'.
Maybe to a point but that is not the ONLY reason. If all our righteousness is of filthy rags then how can you do "good" in the eyes of God and how can it please God, therefore all our good works falls in front of God's eyes.

Those people are wasting their time if they do not receive Jesus Christ. without Christ they CANNOT please God because we have broken God's Laws. One sin, just one will disconnect you from God forever.(ask Adam)
I don't think you realize how exceedingly sinful sin is ? Look at what Jesus went through on the cross and before that when God poured all His wrath on Him. Jesus took our place, he took the punishment from God that was meant for us.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
I am not trying to be funny. Please explain because isn't that what we are already doing in seeking righteousness?

What exactly do you mean?
I know you are not being funny and are saying what you believe.

However when you say that all of everyones works are as filthy rags and everyone is a vile sinner - you are taking Isaiah 64:6 out of context - that was talking about the sins of Israel

Isa 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, [those that] remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isa 64:7 And [there is] none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou [art] our father; we [are] the clay, and thou our potter; and we all [are] the work of thy hand.
Isa 64:9 Be not wroth very sore, O LORD, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see, we beseech thee, we [are] all thy people.
Isa 64:10 Thy holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation.
Isa 64:11 Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste.
Isa 64:12 Wilt thou refrain thyself for these [things], O LORD? wilt thou hold thy peace, and afflict us very sore?
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 4,996,283 times
Reputation: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
Maybe to a point but that is not the ONLY reason. If all our righteousness is of filthy rags then how can you do "good" in the eyes of God and how can it please God, therefore all our good works falls in front of God's eyes.

Those people are wasting their time if they do not receive Jesus Christ. without Christ they CANNOT please God because we have broken God's Laws. One sin, just one will disconnect you from God forever.(ask Adam)
I don't think you realize how sin is exceedingly sinful? Look at what Jesus went through on the cross and before that when God poured all His wrath on Him. Jesus took our place, he took the punishment from God that was meant for us.
I need to see the 'filthy rags' scripture then. Because everything I know of God's love shows that he expects us to obey Him and that he is 'well pleased' w/ our efforts. He loves us in spite of our imperfection. But he expects us to do our best to keep His commands. Why do commands exist if not to obey them to the best of our ability?

I absolutely agree that we have to receive Jesus Christ and accept that he is our savior. Without that, we cannot call ourselves Christian. But I thought you believed in hell? I believe in 'destructionof the ungodly men'. If Christ took the punishment for us, then why would that have to happen? He died for our sins, yes. So we would have the hope of everlasting life. But that doesnt mean we can do whatever we want and get away with it, certainly.
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