U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-18-2008, 12:53 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,831,482 times
Reputation: 1323

Advertisements

Hi Elmer, I have also heard this illustration. We are like passengers on a ship and we are free to come and go as we please on the ship, but the captain is controlling where the ship goes. God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-18-2008, 03:34 PM
 
3,582 posts, read 459,176 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi Elmer, I have also heard this illustration. We are like passengers on a ship and we are free to come and go as we please on the ship, but the captain is controlling where the ship goes. God bless.
Good illustration, Shana.

I do believe we have will and it is free and limited within the contraints of our perceptions. God on the other hand has unlimited will. "Thy will be done on the earth as in heaven"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2008, 04:11 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,831,482 times
Reputation: 1323
Meerkat, people like to think that God cannot make us do anything that we don't want to do, that it is wrong for Him to do so and to me that puts us on the same level as God in a sense. But there is only one God with unlimited free will, and yes, His will be done on earth as in heaven. Jesus prayed this prayer. Was it wrong for Him to pray this and isn't this the Father's will? That His will be done?

People say that it is wrong for God to force His will on us and I don't understand why they see this as wrong. Is it wrong for God the Creator to enlighten those who do not see His light, those who are said to be blind, lost, deceived, held captive, to convince His own creatures of their need for Him, of their need for a Savior? Is it wrong for goodness to win over evil in each and every way, wrong for God to conquer all hearts by the power of His love? Many believe that God is unable or unwilling to do this. What does this say then of His power if He has the power to do this and does not do this, and what does this say of His agape love if He does not do this? is darkness greater than light? Is evil greater than goodness? I believe in the ultimate victory of God.

Quote:
We do not recognize the fact that man is a mere creature, and, as such, has not even the power to oppose God unless it is implanted in Him by the Creator for the purpose of His self-revelation it is God's will that His revealed will be withstood. He has set into action two opposing forces and it is characteristic of Him to do this. We do not apologize for it, neither does He. He kills, He makes alive. He wounds, and He heals (Deut.32:39). .It is imperative that God should clash with His creatures. It is essential that their wills withstand His... Not realizing that God is working against Himself in order to become known, they imagine that their will is independent of His. To imagine that God has created a multitude of lesser deities, with wills absolute, so that they stray beyond the pale of His purpose, is to dethrone Him and dishonor every attribute and essence which defines deity.
A. Knoch
http://www.gtft.org/
Quote:

Also, what would be an example of a doctrine born out of our own lusts?
Maybe one that teaches that God the Creator cannot and will not force His will upon the creature and that it is wrong if He does do this?

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-18-2008 at 05:28 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 11:31 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,777,334 times
Reputation: 1603
I agree that only God and God alone has absolute free will. I believe this is one of the great deceptions of mankind....that we in our flesh believe we are like God.... We can make the decisions that control our life and our world. We don`t want to possibly believe that God is controlling things. Yes, I believe we make choices. But our choices are a reaction to a cause. God is the one who causes. He sends the causes in our life that direct us to make the choice we are predestined to make. We don`t make that choice independent of God. That`s how God knows the beginning from the end. That`s how Jesus knew that Peter would make the choice to deny him three times. It was already predestined. Peter didn`t want to deny Jesus..he loved him. He was acting out God`s will. He is the potter and we, my friends, are the clay. The potter does the forming and molding. The clay can not form itself. We need to give up our ego`s that we have free will like God. That we can affect the outcome of this world and our life like God can.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 12:01 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,831,482 times
Reputation: 1323
Quote:
He is the potter and we, my friends, are the clay. The potter does the forming and molding. The clay can not form itself.
Amen. God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 12:17 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,475,740 times
Reputation: 3755
I believe the only 'free will' that man has is to chose whether he obeys God or does not obey God.
If he choses to believe and obey God, he must do it according to God's will.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 01:40 PM
 
3,582 posts, read 459,176 times
Reputation: 386
Shana/Spm62,

Great posts, thank you.

The more I learn the more I am in awe of God and the more I realise how far we fall short and how merciful God is - his wrath is to show us his mercy, when we don't follow him, when we don't trust him but trust ourselves we place ourselves under his wrath.

Our hearts are so deceptive that when we think we are humble we take pride in our humilty and also focus on our salvation and not on others needs.

Luke 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loveth little.

I have realised that this means that we all will be forgiven so much, and consequently we all will love much when every knee bow and every tongue confess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 01:48 PM
 
3,582 posts, read 459,176 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
While discussing the eventual restoration of all in the thread by that name, I thought of these verses, and I had some questions especially for those who believe in UR. How would you interpret these verses?
2 Tim. 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
First of all, why was Timothy to pay such attention to sound doctrine? What was the danger if this was not done?

Also, what would be an example of a doctrine born out of our own lusts?

Lastly, why did Paul say this: "I have fought a good fight... Henceforth is laid up for me a crown of righteousness." if this crown of righteousness had nothing to do with his fight?

And lastly (a question for all of us), how do we discern truth in these deceptive times?
cg,

When did unsound doctrine start to be inserted into the flock?

Easter, christmas, trinity, virgin birth, jesus is GOD, sacraments,

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

This does not say that they will go out, it says that they had already gone out, there is not ONE ANTICHRIST to come there is the spirit of antichrist which will lead the whole world astray - was happening and is continuing to happen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 02:36 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,777,334 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Meerkat, people like to think that God cannot make us do anything that we don't want to do, that it is wrong for Him to do so and to me that puts us on the same level as God in a sense. But there is only one God with unlimited free will, and yes, His will be done on earth as in heaven. Jesus prayed this prayer. Was it wrong for Him to pray this and isn't this the Father's will? That His will be done?

People say that it is wrong for God to force His will on us and I don't understand why they see this as wrong. Is it wrong for God the Creator to enlighten those who do not see His light, those who are said to be blind, lost, deceived, held captive, to convince His own creatures of their need for Him, of their need for a Savior? Is it wrong for goodness to win over evil in each and every way, wrong for God to conquer all hearts by the power of His love? Many believe that God is unable or unwilling to do this. What does this say then of His power if He has the power to do this and does not do this, and what does this say of His agape love if He does not do this? is darkness greater than light? Is evil greater than goodness? I believe in the ultimate victory of God.



A. Knoch
God's Truth For Today!


Maybe one that teaches that God the Creator cannot and will not force His will upon the creature and that it is wrong if He does do this?
excellent shana...thank you
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 08:13 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,831,482 times
Reputation: 1323
Thank you, spm62. God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top