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Old 10-16-2008, 11:02 AM
 
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While discussing the eventual restoration of all in the thread by that name, I thought of these verses, and I had some questions especially for those who believe in UR. How would you interpret these verses?
2 Tim. 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
First of all, why was Timothy to pay such attention to sound doctrine? What was the danger if this was not done?

Also, what would be an example of a doctrine born out of our own lusts?

Lastly, why did Paul say this: "I have fought a good fight... Henceforth is laid up for me a crown of righteousness." if this crown of righteousness had nothing to do with his fight?

And lastly (a question for all of us), how do we discern truth in these deceptive times?
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:42 PM
 
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Good post and I won't even attempt to answer for the URs.

I know this much:

There are aspects of my faith that I don't understand the 'whys' and the 'how-comes' and there are aspects that I wish weren't true.

But God is just and, above all, HE is God.

I am not God.

I can not shape Him around me, I have to let Him shape me around Him.

How do I discern the Truth? It helps to have an understanding of the scripture from cover to cover, looking at the 'whole picture' and it helps to surround yourself with folks who hunger and thirst for righteousness. Bottom line is that we trust the Holy Spirit to lead us into Truth and make sure what we are exposing ourselves to lines up with the Word of God.

Be teachable but not '
hoodwinkable'.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:52 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,561,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Good post and I won't even attempt to answer for the URs.

I know this much:

There are aspects of my faith that I don't understand the 'whys' and the 'how-comes' and there are aspects that I wish weren't true.

But God is just and, above all, HE is God.

I am not God.

I can not shape Him around me, I have to let Him shape me around Him.

How do I discern the Truth? It helps to have an understanding of the scripture from cover to cover, looking at the 'whole picture' and it helps to surround yourself with folks who hunger and thirst for righteousness. Bottom line is that we trust the Holy Spirit to lead us into Truth and make sure what we are exposing ourselves to lines up with the Word of God.

Be teachable but not '
hoodwinkable'.
Good post. There is truly a wealth of mis-information available.. and God knew what He was doing when He started the Church. There is safety in numbers, if all are hungering and thirsting after truth. Many churches today don't seem to be doing this, and have allowed false doctrine, which causes the true seeker to be alone.. not what God intended, but He can still lead each one of us!

I believe it's crucial to be founded on the Solid Rock with our entire life.. if we are harboring certain sins or things God wants us to change, we won't be able to discern truth in other doctrinal areas. It just doesn't work that way. Such doctrine will be born out of intellect, and not from the Spirit. Our life needs to be fully submitted to God.
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:05 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
Our life needs to be fully submitted to God.
Amen.


Quote:
2 Tim. 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Quote:
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Paul was teaching Timothy to teach the word at all times, reprove, rebuke, exhort with patience, diligence, and scriptures/teaching.
Quote:
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
The time will come when many will turn their ears away from the truth, gather teachers around themselves who will teach what they want to hear.The thing is we need to know what the truth is. We disagree on who may have turned their ears away from the truth.

Quote:
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Quote:
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
Timothy is to do what has been committed to him, endure afflictions, hardships. He was to be dligent in what God called him to do. Paul know that the time for his departure was near and he wanted Timothy to remain faithful to his calling.

Quote:
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Paul looked forward to receiving the crown of righteousness at the coming of the Lord. All who love the Lord, looking for his appearing would receive this at the appearing of the Lord.

It is interesting to note that none of the teachings of Paul spoke of an eternal hell for the lost.

God bless.


Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-16-2008 at 02:59 PM..
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:15 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,561,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Paul looked forward to receiving the crown of righteousness at the coming of the Lord. All would receive this at the appearing of the Lord.
But to look at this point again.. Paul said "I have kept the faith... Henceforth is laid up for me a crown of righteousness."

In other words, because I have kept the faith, I will have a crown. This statement would not make sense if all would receive a crown at the appearing of the Lord.
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
It is interesting to note that none of the teachings of Paul spoke of an eternal hell for the lost.
Paul spoke many times about being faithful and enduring. These encouragements are nonsensical if we do not believe in free will.
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:27 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
But to look at this point again.. Paul said "I have kept the faith... Henceforth is laid up for me a crown of righteousness."

In other words, because I have kept the faith, I will have a crown. This statement would not make sense if all would receive a crown at the appearing of the Lord.
Hi, all will not receive a crown of righteousness of God. God has a firstfruit harvest and a later harvest. Many will experience wrath, loss, exclusion, separation. There will come a time after the ages have run their course, when all are to be reconciled to God. The whole creation is to be delivered (Romans 8) Eventually all are to be subjected to God so that He may be all in all (1 Corin. 15)

Quote:
Paul spoke many times about being faithful and enduring. These encouragements are nonsensical if we do not believe in free will
Free will to me means that we do things totally of our own will without any influence or force affecting us. I believe that many things influence our wills, for example, God's will, His Holy Spirit. He is at work within us both to will and work for His good pleasure. I do believe that we have self will but it is not devoid of influence. One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Him/give praise to Him. This is due to the work and influence of God.

God bless.
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Many will experience wrath, loss, exclusion, separation.
The question I've had, Shana, is: Why will some experience wrath? For what reason?
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:52 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,550,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Why will some experience wrath? For what reason?
The chaff must be separated from the wheat in all of us. We must all face the fire of God, in order to be conformed into His image. The issue is, how much refining will be necessary?
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:55 PM
 
Location: NC
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I agree. And He uses wrath to bring men to their knees, so that they will realize their sin and their need for Him, realize the need for a Savior. Psalms 90:3 says:



3Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.



Zephaniah 3
8 "Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9. "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the LORD,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-16-2008 at 03:11 PM..
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