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View Poll Results: Does establishment of a 'gay'-friendly school constitute endorsement of an immoral lifestyle?
Yes 32 45.07%
No 39 54.93%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
3,570 posts, read 7,775,496 times
Reputation: 5973

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
Why not? Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality or made any hint that it was a "sin". After all there are only two places in the Bible where it makes the assertion that homosexuality is wrong: once in Leviticus where it condemns everyone to death even people who eat lobsters, and once in the gospels of St. Paul. Guess what? Paul never even met Jesus. That was just Paulís opinion, not the words of Jesus, and frankly Paul had some pretty nutty ideas. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality as a sin, but interestingly enough mentioned many times that you shouldn't be judgmental (hey, maybe that was a hint!)

This argument is weak and misleading at best. Your argument assumes that the Gospels are more authoritative than the rest of the books in the Bible. At no point did Matthew, Mark, Luke or John say their books should be elevated above the Torah, or for that matter any writings yet to come.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (2 Tim 3:16). The same Spirit that inspired the authors of the Gospels also inspired the men who wrote the rest of the Bible.

Second: your argument assumes that the Gospels are more comprehensive than they really are. Not only are teh Gospels no more authoritative than the rest of scripture, they're not comprehensive either. That is, they do not provide all we need to know by way of doctrine and practical instruction.

Some of the Bible's most important teachings do not appear in the Gospels: the doctrine of man's old and new nature, outlined by Paul in Romans 6; the priesthood of Christ as illustrated in Hebrews--both of which appear after the Gospel accounts of Christ's life, death and resurrection. Would anyone say these doctrines are unimportant simply because they weren't mentioned by Jesus?

 
Old 10-17-2008, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,862,833 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
Second: your argument assumes that the Gospels are more comprehensive than they really are. Not only are teh Gospels no more authoritative than the rest of scripture, they're not comprehensive either. That is, they do not provide all we need to know by way of doctrine and practical instruction.
Just as some of my responses were directed at your posts, so were some of them directed at urbanlemur's posts. The response you quote is one of them. So if you look at the "subthread" between him and me, you might be able to pick up on the context of what I was getting at here. I assure you, it's a valid argument when taken in context of what I was responding to, but I don't care to rehash it yet again. It's all there in previous pages if you care to look.
 
Old 10-17-2008, 03:56 PM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,172 posts, read 15,004,541 times
Reputation: 64014
Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherologist View Post
I have to agree with Blue. Readin, ritin', and rithmetic. What happed to that being taught in our schools? There will always be some sort of bigotry/intolerance in schools. In public. When I was in school, it was racial. There was a time at my high school when a white girl had better not enter the restroom alone. Those days have passed.

We were also not allowed to have any sort of physical interaction. No holding hands, no hugging and certainly no kissing. What happened to that? I take my 4 YO to the high school each day for a pre-school program. If we arrive on campus between classes you will see young students embracing. I hugged my boyfriend after a football game once and my parents were called.
Schools are not the safe places they once were. My school never went into "lock down mode." We never worried about guns and hostage situations. These are different times in which we live. If an alt. school will help a child learn and break up tension, I'm all for it.

If you're going to teach your kids that homosexuality is wrong and is a sin, be sure to tell them that is your own belief system and not a fact. I'd compare the gay sin to the other silly ideas in "The Bible," like not mixing textiles or not eating shell fish. The fact is, we have already built our civilization, not everyone needs to procreate. In the early days of man, this was not the case. society needed more people, more workers. I'm trying to give "The Bible" the benefit of the doubt. There are more people on the earth today than when the Old Testement was written. If anything we have too many people on the earth, let's stop worrying about the 10 percent who are gay.
 
Old 10-17-2008, 06:37 PM
 
2,670 posts, read 3,551,060 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Jesus Himself said He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The ceremonial law was replaced by Christ's death on the cross but the moral law still stands.
So its still a sin to eat pork and lobster?Gentiles are covered under jewish law?Im going to hell for eating a hotdog and wearing two types of fabric at once?Many christians seem to fixate on old testament verses that reinforce their view of sin while disregarding those that might effect them as being invalidated by the 'new covenant'.You cant have it both ways.I believe gay sex to be unnatural,it 'may' be a sin,but if it would seem to me that if God were 'that'concerned about it jesus would have brought it up at some point and it would have been mentioned more than in passing by 'one'new testament writer.
 
Old 10-17-2008, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,313 posts, read 2,726,544 times
Reputation: 674
"Hear this now, O foolish people, without understanding,
Who have eyes and see not, and who have ears and hear not:
Do you not fear Me?’ says the Lord. ‘Will you not tremble at My presence,
Who have placed the sand as the bound of the sea,
By a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass beyond it?
And though its waves toss to and fro, yet they cannot prevail;
Though they roar, yet they cannot pass over it.
But this people has a defiant and rebellious heart;
They have revolted and departed.
They do not say in their heart,
“Let us now fear the Lord our God."....Jeremiah 5:21-24


"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."....Matthew 13:10

Such is the state of the world today.
 
Old 10-17-2008, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,597,380 times
Reputation: 4457
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
So its still a sin to eat pork and lobster?Gentiles are covered under jewish law?Im going to hell for eating a hotdog and wearing two types of fabric at once?Many christians seem to fixate on old testament verses that reinforce their view of sin while disregarding those that might effect them as being invalidated by the 'new covenant'.You cant have it both ways.I believe gay sex to be unnatural,it 'may' be a sin,but if it would seem to me that if God were 'that'concerned about it jesus would have brought it up at some point and it would have been mentioned more than in passing by 'one'new testament writer.
The dietary laws were part of Jewish ceremonial laws, the moral law includes things like the Ten Commandments and the laws against sexual immorality found in Leviticus.

As for Jesus, he never explicitly mentioned homosexuality but he did mention many times about marriage being between a man and a woman, and he did speak against fornication, which technically would cover homosexuality.
 
Old 10-18-2008, 08:03 AM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,172 posts, read 15,004,541 times
Reputation: 64014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
The dietary laws were part of Jewish ceremonial laws, the moral law includes things like the Ten Commandments and the laws against sexual immorality found in Leviticus.

As for Jesus, he never explicitly mentioned homosexuality but he did mention many times about marriage being between a man and a woman, and he did speak against fornication, which technically would cover homosexuality.
I wish the fundies would make a big deal out of all fornication outside marriage not just gay sex. Look at all the babies born out of wedlock as a result of "promising to save oneself for marriage." That type of fornication seems to be ignored. "Little Susie made some bad choices but look at our cute little grandchild." Why is it that we never hear about little Susie going to hell for her misdeeds, as she too is a fornicator? Play fair or don't play at all.
 
Old 10-18-2008, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,313 posts, read 2,726,544 times
Reputation: 674
zonababe: fundies do speak out on these issues just as they do about other ones. The problem is that no one wants to listen because of the "I'm going to do whatever I want and the heck with everyone else" attitudes that pervade this country. Besides, most people don't seem to really care about what the Bible says anyway, do they? It's just an old, outdated book with a lot of laws and stories that don't apply to my life......
 
Old 10-18-2008, 12:47 PM
 
2,670 posts, read 3,551,060 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
The dietary laws were part of Jewish ceremonial laws, the moral law includes things like the Ten Commandments and the laws against sexual immorality found in Leviticus.

As for Jesus, he never explicitly mentioned homosexuality but he did mention many times about marriage being between a man and a woman, and he did speak against fornication, which technically would cover homosexuality.
Well i agree with you about marriage being between a man and a woman.I will concede your point about fornication,at least the gays dont cause out of wedlock births,and all the problems that result thereafter.Many churches totally freakout about the gays but have a high percentage of couples 'living in sin' among their conregation.I am far from a gay rights crusader,i just see a lot of inconsistancy among many people and the issues they choose to be overly concerned about.
 
Old 10-18-2008, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,597,380 times
Reputation: 4457
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
Well i agree with you about marriage being between a man and a woman.I will concede your point about fornication,at least the gays dont cause out of wedlock births,and all the problems that result thereafter.Many churches totally freakout about the gays but have a high percentage of couples 'living in sin' among their conregation.I am far from a gay rights crusader,i just see a lot of inconsistancy among many people and the issues they choose to be overly concerned about.
Many churches I have been to actually give more sermons on fornication and adultery than homosexuality.
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