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Old 10-18-2008, 08:46 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,564,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
Sacraments are taken with a 'clear conscience' and after you are saved.

Not EVER taking sacraments will not send you to hell or heaven.
Exactly - what we do in remembrance of Him is to show our love for Him, not that we can love Him.
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:36 AM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,423,423 times
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Quote:

Sacraments are taken with a 'clear conscience' and after you are saved.

Not EVER taking sacraments will not send you to hell or heaven.

2nd Quote: Exactly - what we do in remembrance of Him is to show our love for Him, not that we can love Him.

I will concur that it is exactly your interpretation. It is not everyone's - I think these are thought provoking articles.

Apologetics Press - Martin Luther Speaks on “Faith Only” and Baptism (http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/1858 - broken link)
Infant baptism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,467 posts, read 21,222,914 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Exactly - what we do in remembrance of Him is to show our love for Him, not that we can love Him.
Imo, that^ is worthy of repeating.

All I can add is that if Christ/God is alive within us, He shows in everything we do and say.. If we make God within us our friend and mentor, He will put the words into our mouth when we need them to witness, because His Word is written in our hearts..
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,106,922 times
Reputation: 1008
my interpretation?

why dont you read what the bible says...?
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:04 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,423,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
my interpretation?

why dont you read what the bible says...?
I have read what the Bible says and the words I see are not the words you see for you state as fact thngs that are not in the Bible.

Curious though, why you felt you had to use the sarcastic icon, If my attempts at explaining different views have offended you I am sorry. There was no intent to mock or belittle.

My original response was to the notion that certain ""Christians" claim to have an exclusive relationship with an inclusive God and try to limit God to their paradigms instead of something much bigger which, heaven forbid, they [or I or anyone] do not fully understand.

Peace - there is no value in arguing. These difference have existed for hundreds of years and will exist until the end of time.
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Location: USA
322 posts, read 644,105 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June honestly has no idea whether Jesus knows her. If He does, he hasn't let June know. June, generally speaking, has a fairly good grasp on what she knows and what she doesn't know. Most of us do. However, for someone who has posted the querie "How do we know what we know?" in the past on these threads, (as regards such matters as "faith" and "belief") June obviously has some sort of invested interest in how people know what they claim and uphold so strongly to know. June would assume, based on all she has read, (here) and been told (here) that you can't remove Jesus from the equation of "God."

Therefore, you tell me: If your omnipotent, omnipresent God exists, and if Jesus was God's way of showing His divine love for all mankind, then does Jesus know June? It's a real question.

--However, if yours or anyone else's answer to the above ^ is "no," or if it comes with caveats, or if it comes with contingencies, or if it comes with "do's" or "don'ts" or if it comes with "must do's," or if it comes with needing "transformation," or if it comes with "clarification," or if it comes with "contradiction," or if it comes with edification, or if it comes with edicts of anything other than that which June knows, or boldy attempts to deny one note of what June hears, then please:

June genuinelly, respectfully, and most of all authetically asks you to please:

Don't reply.

If your God does not know June, then you (obviously) need not reply. --Because June is obviously not going to heaven. It is obviously not an option for her. --Because "He will say 'away from me you evil doers; I never knew you.' " I accept that.


--Because June would much rather hope to hear one barely inaudible note as she looks out her window, looking to see whether she really heard the geese flying overhead...

And because you don't have the right to define that. You don't have the right to hold anyone else's heart in your own hands.


And risk breaking it in the process...


"What defines a Christian?" --I have no idea what a Christian is anymore. I honestly don't.



Take gentle care.
I truly hope that what I write, will not break your heart. I believe that you pursue honesty.

June, honestly, I could not bear reading day after day, every thing written at this forum. I would simply become so perplexed and bothered, that it would defeat the purpose of why I visit this forum.

Some things written here bless my soul with peace because it is truth. But other things written are so far from the truth, that it makes me feel sick inside. It's like poison. Enough said about that.

The question you present about yourself is--does GOD know you and will you go to heaven?

I will in a gentle way offer some advice. Since you pursue honesty and because GOD likes honesty, then talk to him. Yes, you wonder if He exist. The first step is to know that GOD does exist. But the truth is, that only GOD can reveal His existence to you, or to anyone. Even though in your speaking to Him, you're not sure if He exist, just be honest with Him. Ask Him to reveal His existence to June. Be nice and show respect to Him. But if a person really seeks the truth in their heart, and with all their heart, they will find the Truth, because the LORD will reveal Himself to them. GOD loves June! He is an equal opportunity Saviour! GOD is no respecter of persons! GOD would love to make June His very own child and family member.

Best wishes and I hope to see you in heaven one day! Just trying to help.
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,106,922 times
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I just find it hard to understand when someone is using 'articles, commentaries, wikipedia, etc' to interpret the bible for them.

You're supposed to use other verses in the bible not what Joe the Plumber might think.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:02 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,456,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joedrsaved View Post

I truly hope that what I write, will not break your heart. I believe that you pursue honesty.

June, honestly, I could not bear reading day after day, every thing written at this forum. I would simply become so perplexed and bothered, that it would defeat the purpose of why I visit this forum.

Some things written here bless my soul with peace because it is truth. But other things written are so far from the truth, that it makes me feel sick inside. It's like poison. Enough said about that.

The question you present about yourself is--does GOD know you and will you go to heaven?

I will in a gentle way offer some advice. Since you pursue honesty and because GOD likes honesty, then talk to him. Yes, you wonder if He exist. The first step is to know that GOD does exist. But the truth is, that only GOD can reveal His existence to you, or to anyone. Even though in your speaking to Him, you're not sure if He exist, just be honest with Him. Ask Him to reveal His existence to June. Be nice and show respect to Him. But if a person really seeks the truth in their heart, and with all their heart, they will find the Truth, because the LORD will reveal Himself to them. GOD loves June! He is an equal opportunity Saviour! GOD is no respecter of persons! GOD would love to make June His very own child and family member.

Best wishes and I hope to see you in heaven one day! Just trying to help.
Joedrsaved- You did not break June's heart, and for that she thanks you. Actually, June has to say that what you just wrote, above, was hands down the dearest, sweetest, and nicest post you have ever written that June has read. -- --And for that, she thanks you.

-Because more than anything else, it gives June hope. NOT that she will "find God" and somehow miraculously end up in heaven, but rather, because you actually spoke to June. (As in: You didn't proceed to tell me that I'm destined to the firey flames of hell right off the bat due to my atheist status.) That was tremendous. June likes it when your God makes people a bit kinder and more receptive.

It instills hope in June. It makes her feel that perhaps the vast divide that exists between us, that so superficially and with utter illusion defines us as polar opposites becomes somehow bridged in one, tiny little moment. (Or post.) And that there, in that "place," is where magic and imagination can happen. And that, my friends, is a thing of beauty. June doesn't really care what we call it or how we define it, so long as we just experience and acknowledge it.

Thank you giving June a little microscopic slivver and experience of heaven.


Take gentle care.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:32 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,423,423 times
Reputation: 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
I just find it hard to understand when someone is using 'articles, commentaries, wikipedia, etc' to interpret the bible for them.

You're supposed to use other verses in the bible not what Joe the Plumber might think.
The articles were links to articles I felt did a pretty good job at explaining how different groups understand the sacrament of Baptism, and not my source of understanding of the Bible. You have no knowledge of how much I have read or not read and how much I understand the Bible, other than it must not be much because I have not come to the same conclusions as you have.

I was seeking tolerance and an openess to the idea that different people [in this case different strains of Christianity, not "Joe the Plumber" can read the same Bible and get different messages

You are goading me with your "Joe" statement and "smilies" and I will not play your games.
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,106,922 times
Reputation: 1008
We are debating each other...not Lutheran or Calvin.
Most of those articles are incorrect about what the bible teaches.

We are debating about Not all Christians are going to Heaven.
I would hope that everyone would put some ideas here FROM THE BIBLE not from searches on Google.


BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages. is a great place to start.
They have the bible in different languages, and different versions.

BTW - wikipedia has been changed/edited more than any other article.
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