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Old 10-19-2008, 08:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
Moderator cut: edit

The message is clear...accept Jesus and His commandments or you will face a 2nd death, and go to everlasting fire.
Yes Jesus loves everyone but there is a place for those who practice disobedience.
I believe some will face a second death and that is exactly what it will be death...for the unrepentant..gone from the sight and mind of God..
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Old 10-19-2008, 08:38 PM
 
2,940 posts, read 3,249,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherologist View Post
If the message were clear, there would be no reason for this forum.



Now there's a clear message.
ain`t that the truth......
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Old 10-19-2008, 08:59 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,981 posts, read 5,392,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
Marianinark - I did go and read Romans 6 after you posted and certainly, like most of the New Testament, has much of value. There is no argument that God commands a righteous life, for if he is in our heart we will yearn to follow him, but he does not make it a condition of his love and forgiveness. I did not see the "born again" statement. Actually the oft quoted verse in John is the only place I saw that.

In my area, "born again" is very much interpreted to mean a personal significant almost supernatural spirtual experience, which is a requisite to "being saved" and it best be shared with a real good story of how it happened. I do not see that "requirement" in the Bible. Where is it? The oft quoted verse in John talks about water and the Spirit.

Having been directly told that my infant Baptism, being raised in the church, and coming to an acceptance of Christ as my Lord and Savior is inadequate I do not know what you think is adequate. Do those who make this accusation not have the faith to acknowledge that the Spirit of God can come into an infant through no human act other than being the carrier of the water? You know, infant Baptism was practiced from the earliest days of the church, before there even was an organized church, and was not until the anabaptists came along in the 16th century that this practice was challenged.

The statement about homosexuals - I will defer - I DO believe that two people of the same sex in a loving and committed relationship are not committing an abominable sin and I believe there are arguments concerning the context of the statements regarding men lying with men relative to pagan practices. But exploring that topic is outside the scope of the current thread ......

... and I really have not put much effort into studying it since it has not been of significance in my life. I have far too many planks in my own eyes to worry about the specks in my neighbors eyes.
So you are not able to see the likeness of being dead (to sin) and rising again (to newness of life) as being born again?

It is odd how much a stickler some are to the exact words, and yet they can come up with all sorts of doctrine that have no clear passages for them.

Your second paragraph has no scriptures to support it.

Infant baptism is in no way authorized in the doctrine of Christ. Baptism is for those who are old enought to hear the gospel, believe the gospel, and repent of their sins . No infant can do any of those things. No infant has committed any sins to be repented of. The doctrine of 'original sin' is not scriptural.

The entire book of Acts speaks of the believers being baptized for the remission of their sins. It was a burial in water. The word 'baptism' means immersion in the original scriptures. No one challenged the baptism of the early disciples!

I do not know who or where you got the idea that infant baptism was practiced before the church was established. It certainly is not scriptural.

You have the right to believe whatever you want to about same sex relationships, but God will have the final word on it. He is the one who condemned it. I have great respect for His will. I abide in His word, and I shall continue to do so. God says it is an abomination, and I am certainly not going to argue with Him. You have the right to do as you please...but you will answer to God when all is said and done....
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Old 10-19-2008, 09:16 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
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Answer me this: When Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, had the New Covenant/New Testament been established?
Or was it not established until after Jesus's resurrection?

Does a Testament come into effect before or after a death ?

The same question goes for the 'thief on the cross'.
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Old 10-19-2008, 10:14 PM
 
3,392 posts, read 8,134,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
So you are not able to see the likeness of being dead (to sin) and rising again (to newness of life) as being born again?
...
Yes, that is clear throughout, no I think some of us want to hear where these folks who tell us we are going to hell get the specific "recipie" for being "born again" that tells us we have to have an profound sudden religious experience instead of growing slowly in the Spirit.

Look -concerning Baptism. There is nothing specific in the Bible on infant baptism, but we have hsitorical accounts of it [which I cannot reference, even though it is only historical info because anything I get from a Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, or Presbyterian source will be "suspect" so what is the point of even bothering to discuss it; the historical information is out there]. There is most certainly reference to entire families being Baptized in Corinthians. One could assume infants and children were part of the families and not left out of the fold

What is the point of the last three quesitons? What does it matter?
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:25 AM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 3,132,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherologist View Post
What I am looking for is a clear-cut, biblically sound scripture giving the 'way' that one is 'born again'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
some of us want to hear where these folks who tell us we are going to hell get the specific "recipie" for being "born again"

Funny that GrannyNancy used the word "recipe", I had thought of the same word to describe what it is I think she and I are looking for, but either our message is not clear or there is no such scripture. Please point us to the scripture (you can use BibleGateway.com for reference) that explains how a person is to go about being "born again".


YouTube - Jeopardy! Think Music, 1960s 1984-1997
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:25 AM
 
3,392 posts, read 8,134,500 times
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Yes, I do not think there is argument that we must be "born again" - just trying to understand the basis for an out and out explanation of why I am not considered "born again" if I clearly accept Christ as my Savior and try to follow God's will for my life. - One directly from the Bible itself

With the literal translation of the Bible, I must also be baptized to be saved, but nowhere does it put the constraints on baptism that you do. I have been clearly told told that my one baptism was "no good and did not count" Would it help if you understand that baptism is not considered as a simple subway token to heaven but is considered as done by the Holy Spirit?

There is a premise that children are born without sin?

Psalm 5:5 NIV: Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
398 posts, read 536,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherologist View Post
Funny that GrannyNancy used the word "recipe", I had thought of the same word to describe what it is I think she and I are looking for, but either our message is not clear or there is no such scripture. Please point us to the scripture (you can use BibleGateway.com for reference) that explains how a person is to go about being "born again".


YouTube - Jeopardy! Think Music, 1960s 1984-1997
I'm curious as to wha tthis "recipe" is as well, and so far, no one has provided one. People quote scripture, but none of that gives me this so called "recipe" to being "Born Again." Anyone care to answer the question and give us this "recipe?"
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:16 AM
 
8,990 posts, read 8,799,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morale Officer View Post
I'm curious as to wha tthis "recipe" is as well, and so far, no one has provided one. People quote scripture, but none of that gives me this so called "recipe" to being "Born Again." Anyone care to answer the question and give us this "recipe?"
Do you recognize you are a horrible, vile, disgusting person in the eyes of God even though God sees you as righteous through the blood of Christ.

Are you hungering for His word, can't get enough, read your bible and pray everyday (do you feed your spirit first before your stomach) Have you died to yourself?
Can you not wait to go to church so you can fellowship with other Christians? When you meet a Christian on the street, does your conversation turn to God and how wonderfully merciful, kind He is.

Do you thank Him for the food you eat, the air you breathe, the ground you walk on?

Do you recognize Jesus to be your Lord and Savior; the Son of God who died for your sins.

Do you recognize there are no good works, there is nothing good you can do to enter heaven? that's it's 100% Him and His grace.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 11,756,958 times
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Baptisms were done way before Jesus was around.

Jews use to baptize before that. They would never do it with infants or young children. That was later invented way after Jesus, but NOT by Jesus or His disciples

Last edited by renriq02; 10-20-2008 at 08:38 AM..
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