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Old 10-20-2008, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
398 posts, read 537,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
Baptisms were done way before Jesus was around.

Jews use to baptize before that. They would never do it with infants or young children. That was later invented way after Jesus.
Because they didn't know what happened to the souls of Children. They didn't want Children to die with the stain of the original sin on their souls and back then, Children didn't always live...sometimes they didn't even live a few hours, so they were baptized right away...the tradition just continued.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 11,776,432 times
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How 'harsh' for all those who committed sin.

They're sent into 'oblivion'. No wonder those who commit sin dont care if they die.

If you're 'gone forever' then you wont care but you're 'gone'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
I believe some will face a second death and that is exactly what it will be death...for the unrepentant..gone from the sight and mind of God..
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 11,776,432 times
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That was taught way after but is unbiblical.

The bible clearly states that you're saved by one of your parents if you're a child.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Morale Officer View Post
Because they didn't know what happened to the souls of Children. They didn't want Children to die with the stain of the original sin on their souls and back then, Children didn't always live...sometimes they didn't even live a few hours, so they were baptized right away...the tradition just continued.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:38 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 2,992,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
Yes, that is clear throughout, no I think some of us want to hear where these folks who tell us we are going to hell get the specific "recipie" for being "born again" that tells us we have to have an profound sudden religious experience instead of growing slowly in the Spirit.

Look -concerning Baptism. There is nothing specific in the Bible on infant baptism, but we have hsitorical accounts of it [which I cannot reference, even though it is only historical info because anything I get from a Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, or Presbyterian source will be "suspect" so what is the point of even bothering to discuss it; the historical information is out there]. There is most certainly reference to entire families being Baptized in Corinthians. One could assume infants and children were part of the families and not left out of the fold

What is the point of the last three quesitons? What does it matter?

I have taken this from here:
Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol III-On Baptism


Chapter XVIII.-Of the Persons to Whom, and the Time When, Baptism is to Be Administered


Quote:
.But they whose office it is, know that baptism is not rashly to be administered. "Give to every one who beggeth thee," has a reference of its own, appertaining especially to almsgiving. On the contrary, this precept is rather to be looked at carefully: "Give not the holy thing to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before swine; " and, "Lay not hands easily on any; share not other men's sins." If Philip so "easily" baptized the chamberlain, let us reflect that a manifest and conspicuous evidence that the Lord deemed him worthy had been interposed. The Spirit had enjoined Philip to proceed to that road: the eunuch himself, too, was not found idle, nor as one who was suddenly seized with an eager desire to be baptized; but, after going up to the temple for prayer's sake, being intently engaged on the divine Scripture, was thus suitably discovered-to whom God had, unasked, sent an apostle, which one, again, the Spirit bade adjoin himself to the chamberlain's chariot. The Scripture which he was reading falls in opportunely with his faith: Philip, being requested, is taken to sit beside him; the Lord is pointed out; faith lingers not; water needs no waiting for; the work is completed, and the apostle snatched away. "But Paul too was, in fact, `speedily' baptized: "for Simon, his host, speedily recognized him to be "an appointed vessel of election." God's approbation sends sure premonitory tokens before it; every "petition " may both deceive and be deceived. And so, according to the circumstances and disposition, and even age, of each individual, the delay of baptism is preferable; principally, however, in the case of little children. For why is it necessary-if (baptism itself) is not so necessary -that the sponsors likewise should be thrust into danger? Who both themselves, by reason of mortality, may fail to fulfil their promises, and may be disappointed by the development of an evil disposition, in those for whom they stood? The Lord does indeed say, "Forbid them not to come unto me." Let them "come," then, while they are growing up; let them "come" while they are learning, while they are learning whither to come; let them become Christians when they have become able to know Christ. Why does the innocent period of life hasten to the "remission of sins? "More caution will be exercised in worldly matters: so that one who is not trusted with earthly substance is trusted with divine! Let them know how to "ask" for salvation, that you may seem (at least) to have given "to him that asketh." For no less cause must the unwedded also be deferred-in whom the ground of temptation is prepared, alike in such as never were wedded by means of their maturity, and in the widowed by means of their freedom-until they either marry, or else be more fully strengthened for continence. If any understand the weighty import of baptism, they will fear its reception more than its delay: sound faith is secure of salvation.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
398 posts, read 537,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
That was taught way after but is unbiblical.

The bible clearly states that you're saved by one of your parents if you're a child.
I don't seem to remember that one, but hey, according to most people on this board, I don't know anything and I'm going to hell anyways for my beliefs (even though every one of them on the board is mortal and therefore has NOT and CAN NOT have seen the names inscribed in the book of life). Baptism is biblical, besides that, the denominations that have infant baptism follow up with years of education (CCD in Catholicism) and then confirmation (which allows you to renew the baptismal vow that your parents said for you as a child) which allows you to choose for yourself...making an 'educated' decision.

Be who you are and say what you think because those that care don't matter and those that matter don't care.~Dr. Suess
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 11,776,432 times
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It's what Paul wrote in the New Testament.

Let me know if you need the verses.

BTW - the bible ALSO says that there is only

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morale Officer View Post
I don't seem to remember that one, but hey, according to most people on this board, I don't know anything and I'm going to hell anyways for my beliefs (even though every one of them on the board is mortal and therefore has NOT and CAN NOT have seen the names inscribed in the book of life). Baptism is biblical, besides that, the denominations that have infant baptism follow up with years of education (CCD in Catholicism) and then confirmation (which allows you to renew the baptismal vow that your parents said for you as a child) which allows you to choose for yourself...making an 'educated' decision.

Be who you are and say what you think because those that care don't matter and those that matter don't care.~Dr. Suess
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
398 posts, read 537,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
It's what Paul wrote in the New Testament.

Let me know if you need the verses.

BTW - the bible ALSO says that there is only

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism
To be quite honest...and I mean bluntly and brutally honest here...I don't really care at the moment. I'm too tired to care about what fundamentalist bible thumpers think. I'm tired of arguing with people that want to tell me I'm wrong in everything that I believe and that I'm going to hell because not only do I smoke, drink, gamble, and swear, but because I believe something different than they do. I'm tired of being told that I have no chance of getting to heaven by people that INSIST that the bible is the only answer and that I need to take everything in it literally, but these people don't follow their own words to me (even though they insist that they do). I'm just too tired to care and argue about this or anything else at the moment. You want to know the best part about all this? Even though I'm too tired to care about what you or anyone else for that matter think about me or my beliefs, there is one part of me that was not too tired to care about going over to my Mothers and seeing my 6 year old Niece smile and 3 month old Nephew sleep. In my heart, I know that no matter what we say on these boards about each other and to each other, there is at least one group of us that has it right. There is one group of Christians and Non-Christians alike that no matter what any of us believe, will go to heaven. And that's the Children. I mean, wasn't there something, somewhere in the bible about us being Child like to Jesus? So, once again, I've gotta quote Dr. Seuss: Be who you are and say what you think because those that care don't matter and those that matter don't care.
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 11,776,432 times
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I think you would prefer to follow what Dr Seuss states then the bible.

Bible thumpers are not...Jesus was quoting everything from the Old Testament. I guess He was a bible thumper.

Most people dont like to follow the bible because it doesn't fit with their lifestyles. I'm writing this out of experience. If God wants me to read the Word of God, and to follow it, then I will.
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:32 AM
 
3,394 posts, read 8,157,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism
So why do you reject my baptism and tell me I must be baptized again?

I guess more scholarly people than us have not resolved this issue which has existed for centuries. The fact that Tertullian had an opinon [not the prevailing opinion, BTW] in the 2nd century indicates the practice was clearly being done back then.

I too am tired - there is no argument to the references posted for relative to being "born again" and this concept permeates Christianity but does not prescribe a particular "lightning bolt kind of experience"

................it still does not answer where the scriptural source of this prevailing and condescending attitude in some fundamentalist sects
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 3,751,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morale Officer View Post
In my heart, I know that no matter what we say on these boards about each other and to each other, there is at least one group of us that has it right. There is one group of Christians and Non-Christians alike that no matter what any of us believe, will go to heaven. And that's the Children. I mean, wasn't there something, somewhere in the bible about us being Child like to Jesus? So, once again, I've gotta quote Dr. Seuss: Be who you are and say what you think because those that care don't matter and those that matter don't care.
I love Dr Seuss. And hey, based on my understanding of 'hell'-We're ALL going there! Mwa-ha-ha-ha
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