Not all Christians are going to Heaven (paradise, Holy Ghost, apostles)

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by renriq02

What you're stating is the first step of repentance.

When they asked him what must I do to be SAVED

He didnt say "ask for forgiveness, and make Me your Lord and Savior."

John 3:16 does not say be baptized and you will not perish.

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by renriq02

Isn't water baptism part of repentance?

Right, which is in turn part of dedicating oneself to God.

[grannynancy]

Originally Posted by alicenavada

Baptism is simply a symbol of the dedication we make to God in our heart. An outward manifestation of an inward quality. Without making the dedication first in our hearts, the physical act of baptism means nothing.

If this were simply symbolic it would not be required.

We publicly profess our faith every Sunday and at other times. We must [in all churches with infant baptism] affirm our own baptism to the church. I disagree with the standard approach of doing it at a certain age - and I actually rebelled and was not "confirmed" until I was an adult because I could not make that committment at 13 but I could at 19 and did not want to go through any motions because it was expected. But don't tell me those same pressures to be baptized are not on older baptist kids because they are [I had a family full of them]

[renriq02]

Indeed the chapter does although I know you weren't meaning to say that.

I hope you know what it means to 'believe in Him'.

Read verse 5


3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

John 3:16 does say be baptized and you will not perish.

[grannynancy]

Originally Posted by alicenavada

I think 'unbaptized Christian' is kind of an oxymoron. I don't think a person who has no desire to symbolize their dedication to God thru water baptism could truly call himself a Christian. Do you?

Yes, if they were ALREADY baptized! And have affirmed their faith and believe in ONE baptism. It is not symbolic for some of us and we were not dedicated as infants we were baptized. It is a different paradigm and a paradigm supported by the historical [at least known for sure since the 2nd century] behavior of the church, including those [e.g., Assyrian] which were not part of the Eastern Orthodox/Roman Catholic progression! ie ithe practice of infant baptism in the Christian Church well preceded the pope.

[renriq02]

Two parts when they asked Jesus.

What must I do to be saved?

Repent and be Baptized.

Infants can do neither as they have no choice to do either one.

Originally Posted by grannynancy

Yes, if they were ALREADY baptized! And have affirmed their faith and believe in ONE baptism. It is not symbolic for some of us and we were not dedicated as infants we were baptized. It is a different paradigm.

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by grannynancy

If this were simply symbolic it would not be required.

We publicly profess our faith every Sunday and at other times. We must [in all churches with infant baptism] affirm our own baptism to the church. I disagree with the standard approach of doing it at a certain age - and I actually rebelled and was not "confirmed" until I was an adult because I could not make that committment at 13 but I could at 19 and did not want to go through any motions because it was expected. But don't tell me those same pressures to be baptized are not on older baptist kids because they are [I had a family full of them]

Well, I think it's obvious that it's symbolic. We aren't LITERALLY washing our sins away. It's a symbol of our dedication...a required symbol, definitely.

I don't agree w/ the approach of doing things at a certain age either. I believe a person must come to an accurate knowledge of the scriptures first. I was rather young, about 12. My husband was 19.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by renriq02

Indeed the chapter does although I know you weren't meaning to say that.

I hope you know what it means to 'believe in Him'.

Read verse 5


3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world

No where does God's Word say if you're not baptized you will not enter Heaven. Being born of water and spirit in John 3:5 is referring to the cleansing action of God's Holy Spirit.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by alicenavada

Well, I think it's obvious that it's symbolic. We aren't LITERALLY washing our sins away. It's a symbol of our dedication...a required symbol, definitely.

I don't agree w/ the approach of doing things at a certain age either. I believe a person must come to an accurate knowledge of the scriptures first. I was rather young, about 12. My husband was 19.

Yes, I agree with this.

[little elmer]

You can be baptized spiritually without going near the water, just like you can be circumcised spiritually if you're a sister in Christ.

Jesus commandment to repent and be baptized was the (only) way to fellowship with the Father through Jesus Christ. It has everything to do with dying to the old man, and little to do (except symbolism) with water.