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Old 10-21-2008, 03:06 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,410,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
Two parts when they asked Jesus.

What must I do to be saved?

Repent and be Baptized.

Infants can do neither as they have no choice to do either one.
They can BE Baptized; you are correct they cannot repent - we MUST also do that. You are taking the AND to mean a sequential relationship between the two.

Maybe that is my point. We do not Baptize ourselves. It says BE baptized. We are Baptized by the Holy Spirt through water and the word. We RECEIVE the Holy Spirit as surely as we recieve food and drink as infants. We are still accountable to repent and follow Christ. Baptism alone does not save us.

You see it is much more powerful than a simple affirmation. I have truly felt the presence of the spirit of God at Baptisms - just as I have when a group prayes together - it pervades the sanctuary and penetrates my body through the core. I know the Holy Spirt is truly present at that moment. The child will have to choose what to do with that gift as he grows closer to or away from God, but he is brought into the community of God's people from the very beginning.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,098,996 times
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The Holy Spirit cleanses with fire not water.

You say nowhere but it does!

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

You have to born of water AND of the Spirit.

Please tell me where it says that the Holy Spirit is doing this cleansing action

Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
No where does God's Word say if you're not baptized you will not enter Heaven. Being born of water and spirit in John 3:5 is referring to the cleansing action of God's Holy Spirit.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
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16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 4,996,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

While I agree with this, one must also use the reasoning laid out for us in the scriptures. That heart condition, not actual water baptism,, is what determines salvation. If a person is developing a relationship w/ God when he dies, and he simply hasnt reached the point of water baptism, should we assume that person is not going to receive life?

Jesus promised the evildoer beside him that he would receive salvation,no doubt due to the repentance he showed at the last. This man did not get baptized in water before he died, yet Christ gave him the promise of paradise.

That's lovely, is it not?
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
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The evildoer (thief) was before the new covenant.

This is after Jesus
in Acts
37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter was not speaking of the Holy Spirit but of the water baptism.

Most people say that you are not saved 'by works' but repenting is not a work it is a fruit.
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance

Confession is repentance
Baptism is repentance and not a dedication.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
While I agree with this, one must also use the reasoning laid out for us in the scriptures. That heart condition, not actual water baptism,, is what determines salvation. If a person is developing a relationship w/ God when he dies, and he simply hasnt reached the point of water baptism, should we assume that person is not going to receive life?

Jesus promised the evildoer beside him that he would receive salvation,no doubt due to the repentance he showed at the last. This man did not get baptized in water before he died, yet Christ gave him the promise of paradise.

That's lovely, is it not?
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:48 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,555,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
The Holy Spirit cleanses with fire not water.

You say nowhere but it does!

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

You have to born of water AND of the Spirit.

Please tell me where it says that the Holy Spirit is doing this cleansing action
I agree, but I can't read.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,098,996 times
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Edit..you changed your post! lol
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 4,996,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
The evildoer (thief) was before the new covenant.

This is after Jesus
in Acts
37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter was not speaking of the Holy Spirit but of the water baptism.

Most people say that you are not saved 'by works' but repenting is not a work it is a fruit.
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance

Confession is repentance
Baptism is repentance and not a dedication.
Baptism existed well before the death of Christ. Jesus himself was baptized and we are to follow in his steps. Therefore, baptism was definitely a part of being a follower of Christ before his death. My point was that if a person dies before he reaches the point of water baptism, we cannot assume he does not qualify for everlasting life.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:53 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,555,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
Edit..you changed your post! lol
It's the phones - they're driving me crazy!

(God is using them to kill my flesh, that's for sure.)
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,098,996 times
Reputation: 1008
We cannot but what does the bible say?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
Baptism existed well before the death of Christ. Jesus himself was baptized and we are to follow in his steps. Therefore, baptism was definitely a part of being a follower of Christ before his death. My point was that if a person dies before he reaches the point of water baptism, we cannot assume he does not qualify for everlasting life.
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