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Old 10-21-2008, 04:55 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,443,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
The Holy Spirit cleanses with fire not water.
The Holy Spirt came to Jesus as a Dove - of course he did not need cleansing. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples as fire during the Pentecost. Is the Spirt of God subjected to metaphysical limitations?
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,003,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
We cannot but what does the bible say?
Are you seriously suggesting that if a person is just learning about God and isnt able to get baptized before he dies, he has no hope? What if he dies on the way to get baptized? I mean, come on.
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:56 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,579,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
We cannot but what does the bible say?
Isn't the symbol of baptism the dying of the old man, and rising again in new life? Which is more important, the symbol or actually living it?
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:57 PM
 
Location: UK.
348 posts, read 451,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth View Post
If I may interrupt here..

Therefore, having any kind of sex, heterosexual or homosexual, is wrong outside of marriage.

What does the Bible say about marriage? That it is to be between one man and one woman. So, in the confines of the Biblical directives, there should be NO premarital sex. And since gay marriage is not ordained by God and homosexuality is actually an abomination to God, what is the homosexual to do?

They are to do what other Christians do, and what the Bible says. They are to do what alcoholics and drug addicts do...abstain. Accept Jesus Christ, live for the Lord and deny their urges and desires. They are to surround themselves with loving Christians who accept them and help them through it.

I am a single person, and I do not have sex. It is because the Bible tells me that I should not unless I am married. It's that simple. You pray to God to help you with your weaknesses, read and study the Bible and live only to please your God. DO NOT live to please yourself, you fight the good fight for the few years you are here and you win an everlasting life with our Almighty Creator God. It will be worth the very temporary self-denial to have a permanent place in heaven.
I totally respect your personal decisions in this matter, if it is the kind of life you choose for yourself, I really do.

However, my psychological training prompts me to be a little concerned at what you are inflicting on yourself in the name of your faith.

I don't really know how to approach this issue without offending your deeply-held convictions, NorthSouth, but to me, you are literally abusing your natural self, and in a very real sense which compromises your health, both mental and physical.

Self-denial is one thing, but you are carrying this to an extreme, I fear.

I don't know, of course, how strong your libido is, but hopefully, sexual expression might not be a very pressing issue for you, and therefore easy to sublimate. I truly hope so for your sake, because even Saint Paul, (himself ambiguous in the sexual sense), advised marriage rather than 'Burn', as he put it.

I will, therefore adopt that word 'burn' in this context if I may.

Whether we can accept it or not, our whole physiognomy is geared to reproduce. Hormones flood the system day and night, prompting us to pass on our genes. In this sense, Mother Nature is not concerned whether we have a marriage certificate or not, She still drives us to find partners so that the species doesn't die out. (or even partners of our own sex if that is your nature - what is 'abominable' about any couple in love, regardless of gender?).

I guess this all sounds a bit too crude and animalistic for you, but it is still a fact of life, no matter how inconvenient and contrary to your dearest Spiritual aspirations.

Personally, I can't bring myself to support your view that this sexual limbo is what your God decreed for you in this life. I would have a problem accepting the cruelty of this very idea. No god would want a child of his to burn in this way, it just isn't humane. Nor should you be forced to take on the responsibility of a marriage if you aren't ready for it. Would that be fair to your spouse? No, it would not.

Deny and abstain? All I can say is that the sexual urge is not a weakness as you seem to think - it is built into us, and no amount of Bible study or prayer (with respect) is going to make it go away.

To sum up, all I am trying to say is 'if this works for you - go with it' But please bear in mind that other intelligent men and women may have a different view of how the world id structured, and even if their view doesn't embrace a god figure - EVERBODY around you deserves your respect and tolerance - - and not your harsh condemnation.

Responsible sex, whether in or out of marriage, brings much joy to people, and is not of itself harmful, no matter what you may personally believe.
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,121,115 times
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I haven't heard that ever happening, but I guess people want to look at how the bible fits THEIR lifestyle and THEIR thinking.

I see your rational as a fellow human, but I'm asking you what the bible says not what my personal feelings are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
Are you seriously suggesting that if a person is just learning about God and isnt able to get baptized before he dies, he has no hope? What if he dies on the way to get baptized? I mean, come on.
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:59 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,480,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
John 3:16 does not say be baptized and you will not perish.
Please quit misquoting John 3.16.... it says "whosoever believes in Him SHOULD NOT perish". The reason they should not perish is because those who really believe in Him WILL obey Him.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,121,115 times
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Living it, and that's why baptism is not a symbol or dedication.

It is part of repentance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Isn't the symbol of baptism the dying of the old man, and rising again in new life? Which is more important, the symbol or actually living it?
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,003,210 times
Reputation: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
I haven't heard that ever happening, but I guess people want to look at how the bible fits THEIR lifestyle and THEIR thinking.

I see your rational as a fellow human, but I'm asking you what the bible says not what my personal feelings are.
I am aware of what the scriptures say. But since Christ himself showed compassion in this regard with the evildoer beside him at his death, I know God would do the same. Covenant or no covenant, the principal and reason for baptism was still the same.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,121,115 times
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Does everyone get taken up to Heaven like Enoch and Elijah? no.

Maybe if I prayed hard enough it will happen?

Experiences in the bible doesnt make it doctrine.

Also, it was John the Baptist who began teaching the baptism of repentance. Jews had baptisms before but it was not the same as the way Jesus or John the Baptist taught it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
I am aware of what the scriptures say. But since Christ himself showed compassion in this regard with the evildoer beside him at his death, I know God would do the same. Covenant or no covenant, the principal and reason for baptism was still the same.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
396 posts, read 732,106 times
Reputation: 107
I keep reading several things here:
1) What does the Bible say?
2) I believe in the Bible 100%.
3) That's not what the Bible says.
4) That's not what the Bible meant.
Now, I've got a real problem. People ask for Bible verses. Verses are given. Instead of an "Ok, it's in the Bible," people are giving, "Yes, it says that, but that's not what it means." I get yelled at for believing what I believe and then preached to that I'm wrong and told I'm going to hell. You try to twist scripture to make it say what you want it to say. But as soon as someone produces scripture that proves you wrong, you say, "No, it doesn't say that." This is yet another reason all you can do sometimes is shake your head.
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