Not all Christians are going to Heaven (Micah, Catholic, Abraham)

[Towhee]

Sorry, I should have waited until after my afternoon nap before my last post..

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by Marianinark

Also, as it has already been said...the title is misleading. All Christians will go to heaven..if they remain faithful to the end. I believe the OP meant all "Christians", meaning all who call themselves Christians but are not. I am sorry to say, there are many who fall into that category, but they are not necessarily those who (rightly) speak out against sin,( including homosexual activities). Speaking out, and warning against all sins, are Christian 'duties', (if you will....). We are told to do so. It is for the good of the sinner. It is because we hope to save the sinner and help him/her attain eternity in heaven. Anyone who condones sin is not a Christian.

Dead on the money there, Marian.

It's frustrating really to see so many people with so many diverse beliefs and so many opinions and ideas that are counter to what the Bible actually says, picking up and carrying the title of Christian.

It's bizarre, really.

Your last sentence is worth repeating, great comment there!

Anyone who condones sin is not a Christian.

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Dead on the money there, Marian.

It's frustrating really to see so many people with so many diverse beliefs and so many opinions and ideas that are counter to what the Bible actually says, picking up and carrying the title of Christian.

It's bizarre, really.

Your last sentence is worth repeating, great comment there!

Anyone who condones sin is not a Christian.

You know, Alpha, I've been wondering if there's an Alternative Lifestyle (for lack of a better term) or other similar type of Forum on City Data -- like the new Atheist and Agnostic Forum???

It does seem that there are a lot of people coming here lately to discuss this particular issue.
It's not like they come here without knowledge of what the Word of God says about it. They aren't coming here to be changed... It seems that it always goes around and around and never gets anywhere. If anything, I think visiting this forum drives them further away from the grace of God that could be offered to them if they sought it....

There may be a forum for them that I'm not aware of... I just thought that maybe it would give them a place to go to discuss things instead of coming here to stir things up.

Just wondered....

btw - please don't everyone judge me for my choice of terms. I don't know how else to speak it... that doesn't mean that I believe anything contrary to the Word on this particular subject... and, I'm not condoning anyone's sin.

[World Citizen]

I have to add one final comment.... and then I'll be happy to leave quietly and not bother anyone again!

It is sad to me that the OP, who says he's got a ministry for gays at his church, did not add anything to this conversation when a homosexual, someone who'd grown up in church -- a man who says that he'd been abused by his pastor father - was actively involved in the conversation.

It seems to me that cults -- the outright spirit of the anti-christ according to the Word of God - are treated with more respect on this forum.

[little elmer]

I will in no way say that God - or I - condone sin; I will however say that God uses the infractions of man and turns it around for good. Thus we can say with confidence that no situation is outside of God's governance or arena for His grace.

I have trouble with this, but it's either true or it's not - and I say it's true.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by World Citizen

You know, Alpha, I've been wondering if there's an Alternative Lifestyle (for lack of a better term) or other similar type of Forum on City Data -- like the new Atheist and Agnostic Forum???

It does seem that there are a lot of people coming here lately to discuss this particular issue.
It's not like they come here without knowledge of what the Word of God says about it. They aren't coming here to be changed... It seems that it always goes around and around and never gets anywhere. If anything, I think visiting this forum drives them further away from the grace of God that could be offered to them if they sought it....

There may be a forum for them that I'm not aware of... I just thought that maybe it would give them a place to go to discuss things instead of coming here to stir things up.

Just wondered....

btw - please don't everyone judge me for my choice of terms. I don't know how else to speak it... that doesn't mean that I believe anything contrary to the Word on this particular subject... and, I'm not condoning anyone's sin.

I thought there was a forum that GLBT exclusive. I can't find it though so I may be wrong. I know there's a social group for it and for any variety of other things.

Regardless, I think it's fine to discuss that issue alongside religion and it's come up several times. I hate the way we (Christians) do tend to elevate homosexuality above other sins, as I know that my lusting and my lying and my pride etc are just as hurtful to God as someone else's sin. The flip side of that is that I hate the way many folks don't even consider sin sin anymore. We've seen abortion called ok, masturbation, homosexuality, polygamy, etc.

Sad.

That being said, I think we all need to remember the power of our words. City-Data is an amazing place. If you go to google and type "can you be gay and a christian' a city-data thread is on the first page of hits. Our words will be read for a long time and we would be well advised to make sure they are biblically accurate. At the same time, we need to reflect Christ to a lost and dying world.

Somehow, He managed to maintain preaching and teaching repentance and holiness while rubbing shoulders with prostitutes, tax collectors, and sinners. And they (the sinners) weren't the ones who crucified Him.

Something to think about.

[World Citizen]

I think of Rahab the harlot ... and so many others when I think about God's amazing grace -- His unmerited favor...

God, in His infinite wisdom, included her in the lineage of Jesus Christ...

Do you think it's because sin is sin to God ??

[cg81]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Somehow, He managed to maintain preaching and teaching repentance and holiness while rubbing shoulders with prostitutes, tax collectors, and sinners. And they (the sinners) weren't the ones who crucified Him.

Something to think about.

Very good point.

I know this has been said before, but the very first responsibility we have is our own soul's salvation.. our own walk with God.

Is it really, really where it should be?

If we are constantly being offensive and sending people away, I question this. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone.. and not condoning being permissive or skirting the truth.. but what is our message? What are we REALLY saying? Are we only pointing towards Christ, thus having an effective message? We discussed that in this thread:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...-we-doing.html

Not all people, not all "Christians" are going to heaven. But let's take a long hard look at ourself first of all... and then, if the Lord opens the door, help others.

May my words reflect less of me, and more of HIM.

[little elmer]

Originally Posted by cg81

May my words reflect less of me, and more of HIM.

I understand.

Let's remember that seeing good and evil is opposed to Life, if we're to look at the choice in the Garden. Not that we don't see the sin, but to be so God conscious that we see His domain in everything.

[grannynancy]

Originally Posted by World Citizen

It's not like they come here without knowledge of what the Word of God says about it. They aren't coming here to be changed... It seems that it always goes around and around and never gets anywhere. If anything, I think visiting this forum drives them further away from the grace of God that could be offered to them if they sought it

Despite the overwhelming consensus that God codemns homosexuality, the more I learn about it the less and less I feel that he does, and I am grateful to him for pushing the issue as it is one I intend to explore further. I keep going back to things I have stated before and links posted.

IF you are told that what you are doing is a sin, what other recourse is there than to change from committing that sin? It is cheap grace to intentionally sin and ask forgiveness.

I feel bad he left the Christianity forum because there are Christians [well, you reject us as Christians too ] who would accept him as he is and not count him as flawed in that respect. I had no issue with the homosexuality but did with the lack of an expressed need for God - ie that the solution was all inside of him - that is very gnostic thinking as well [he mentioned those rejceted books of the Bible too and I think there is good reason they were declared heretical very early in the Church].

I was certainly part of it by suggesting this thread was about not all "Christians" go to heaven and that another thread would be more appropraite - but don't think it would have made a lot of difference - because of the lack of acceptence of who he is as a human being was overpowering.

I know how I feel being told everything about the Bible the way I understand it is "wrong"- I am just not going to leave here because if one person does not leave because they realize all people who proclaim Christ are not of the same cloth, it may help them from turning away from the faith.