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Old 10-17-2008, 09:43 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,694,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherologist View Post
The problem I have with these questions is...

Why is it that a person has to have had a conversion? Is it not possible for a person to have always been a Christian?


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That depends, what is always? I am a son of a Pentecostal minister. I grew up in the church- went to Christian private schools- all I knew were Christians and pastors, I acted like a Christian, I knew the lingo of a Christian and I knew more theology than most Christians I met yet I wasn't a Christian. I received Christ this year in March.

Is that the "always" you are talking about. I must have "given" my heart to the Lord about 65 times before I finally repented, received and put my trust in Jesus Christ.
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,461 posts, read 3,276,937 times
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"For by Grace we are saved through Faith, not as a result of works, that no man can boast" We are saved by faith in Christ, through his grace. It is not as a result of works. If it is works than how much is enough??? That last buck in the offering plate and God says, "oh that will do it". That would be a life of fear, always wondering if you have done enough, been good enough, were up to His standards. Plus if we have anything to do in our salvation than it surely is less than perfect! His standards are perfection and none of us meet those standards. Only Christ, the lamb of God, could be the perfect sacrifice for our sins.
We do good works out of thanksgiving for all God has done for us. I give money, help others, etc because God's love spills over to me because of His grace and love for me. The fruits of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, self-control, all grow inside of us and we demonstrate God's love through how we treat others. They see that and understand how God love them. We are salt and light to the world.
The Bible says even Satan believes in God. But Satan sure does not yeild to God or has surrended his will to God. A Christian gives over his heart and will and life when he accepts God's gift of life through what Christ did on the cross. He lives in us through his Holy Spirit and works out his will through us.
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:53 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,694,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Tell me (unless I'm wrong) isn't Jesus talking about baptism when he says being born of water and the spirit?
Since Jesus is comparing spiritual rebirth to physical birth (thus Nicodemus' question) the other question that I would like to ask is, who has a choice about being concieved? If we do not have the ability to choose our physical birth, how then do we make a decision about our spiritual life?
Yes Jesus is talking about baptism. God is working in all of us, when we receive Christ, God helps us to grow because we seek righteousness.

"Born again" also carries the idea "to become children of God" through trust in the name of Jesus Christ. A person needs to be born again in order to have their sins forgiven and have a relationship with God.
We may been born physically but we are all born spiritually dead because of sin when we become reborn, we are made alive and we will never die because from that point we have everlasting life.

I guess I did. I came to an understanding that if I wanted to be with God and be right with God I had to be "born again"

Quote:
IMO, its a misnomer to say that not all christians will not go to heaven. Those who don't get invited by God to recieve the inheritance were not christians in the first place.
EXACTLY!! The problem is now the term "Christian" has become subjective. That was the fault of the church.
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:53 AM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 4,379,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
You can't be serious weather?! How is quoting scripture not answering the question? And as far as if Catholics will be in heaven, please! Of course there will be Catholics there. Let's take denominations out of the discussion at this point. I am not saying a specific church or denomination is the only right one. There will be people from differing religions in heaven. It's all about a relationship with Jesus. We all may have different ways of saying it, as I learned from a good friend who is a Lutheran pastor.

How can you not say that I'm answering the question by using Bible verses? That's the source of the topic. It was Jesus who said that you need to be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. It's not about being baptized, confirmed yada, yada, it's about being reborn in the spirit. All of the things like baptism, confirmation are an outward expression only. Those things do not save you or allow you to enter heaven. It's all about what Jesus said in the Word.
Yes, I am serious. You know as well as I that there are plenty of "born again" Christians on this forum who have a pre-determined view of what born again means and that they will hide behind scripture without giving a full and whole hearted answer to the question. There are many 'born again' Christians on the forum who will tell you that Catholics are not Christians.

I am not attacking you, Hoosier. Please do not take it as that. I am just looking for clarification of what it means to be 'born again'. If you can find me scripture to explain that, I will accept it. However, I am only reading that one must be born again.

I, personally, cannot tell you of any life-changing moment in my life where I was "born again". I was baptized as an infant in a Methodist Church. I was raised by parents who taught me of the love of God and that he gave His only Son to die for my sins. I have always accepted Christ as my Lord and Saviour. I am a sinner and everyday I die and rise again to that sin. Everyday I ask God to forgive me of my sins. Before I receive the Eucharist I say, "Lord, I am not worthy to receive You, but only say the word and I shall be healed". These words fully depict who I am. I am not worthy. Only my Lord, my God, has the power to heal me. And only I have the power to accept His saving grace.
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,461 posts, read 3,276,937 times
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Reformed Liberal....How exciting for you. Isn't God good!
My parents became Christians in their 50's. My dad was an elder in the church, we had the youth group at our house. We all thought we were Christians because we were doing good things. My parents didn't drink, smoke or cuss. They thought God has some big balance scales and they were close enough!!!
My dad was pressured at work so he and my mom went to a state park for a get-away. They called to be sure they were not having something there that was loud. They said there was a Christian group and retreat. They thought, "oh good the Christian group will be quiet" They got up Saturday morning at seven to go hiking and the group was getting ready for a morning seminar. Well they though "who would get up at seven for a church meeting??? that's sort of a Sunday thing" They were talking about how to share your faith, they were using the "Four Spiritual Laws" booklet from Campus Crusade. Well they listened to the presentation and when it got to the part about it's not doing a list of do's and don't and not just going to church they realized they were not Christians. They prayed and asked Christ to come into their lives, forgive their sins and make them who He wanted them to be.
All I can tell you is that when they came home they were different. They had a hunger and thrist for God's word. They studied and prayed together and both started a deep, loving relationship with the living God.
I became a Christian a year later, and my next older brother about five years later.
When you are "born again" you see from different eyes. Suddenly you read God's word and things jump out at you. It is the peace that passes understanding.
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,073,803 times
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Kind of a side thought but do any of you feel like it kind of negates the impact of God's giving his own son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins if he was just sending part of his own self? I'm not trying to start another trinity discussion, just trying to get a viewpoint. Giving up a child is so much more emotional for me than giving up one's own life. I can't grasp the heart of the father loving the world so much that he 'gave his only begotten son' unless I look at it in that way.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:03 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,694,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftwoodpoint View Post
Reformed Liberal....How exciting for you. Isn't God good!
My parents became Christians in their 50's. My dad was an elder in the church, we had the youth group at our house. We all thought we were Christians because we were doing good things. My parents didn't drink, smoke or cuss. They thought God has some big balance scales and they were close enough!!!
My dad was pressured at work so he and my mom went to a state park for a get-away. They called to be sure they were not having something there that was loud. They said there was a Christian group and retreat. They thought, "oh good the Christian group will be quiet" They got up Saturday morning at seven to go hiking and the group was getting ready for a morning seminar. Well they though "who would get up at seven for a church meeting??? that's sort of a Sunday thing" They were talking about how to share your faith, they were using the "Four Spiritual Laws" booklet from Campus Crusade. Well they listened to the presentation and when it got to the part about it's not doing a list of do's and don't and not just going to church they realized they were not Christians. They prayed and asked Christ to come into their lives, forgive their sins and make them who He wanted them to be.
All I can tell you is that when they came home they were different. They had a hunger and thrist for God's word. They studied and prayed together and both started a deep, loving relationship with the living God.
I became a Christian a year later, and my next older brother about five years later.
When you are "born again" you see from different eyes. Suddenly you read God's word and things jump out at you. It is the peace that passes understanding.
That makes my heart glad, I am close to tears. Yes God is wonderful! and I am joyful for your family and thank you for that testimony

God Bless
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,317,959 times
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1. Accept Jesus as your Lord & Savior = born again. YOU and not your parents, brothers, sisters, etc. It must be YOUR decision.

2. Live righteously AND BEAR FRUITS. If you don't bear fruits then you will be cut down, and thrown in the fire.

3. Follow the sound doctrine as there will be many denying the Father & the Son, and it will be the spirit of the antichrist.

They asked Jesus what they need to do to be saved...
Everyone always forgets the first part..
REPENT and be baptized.

You can't 'hope' you're doing the right things to 'please' God.
Either you're doing it or you're not. Either you know or you don't.

This is why the bible says we SHALL be saved.

You must overcome death as Jesus did.
Either you overcome death and live an everlasting life with God
or
You die the 2nd death

Many are going to say
Lord when were you hungry? naked? sick? in jail?
IF you would've done it to the least of these, then you would've done it to Him.

Two greatest commandments
1. Love God ....first and foremost
2. Love your neighbor. 2nd commandment and NOT EQUAL to the first.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:11 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,694,814 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherologist View Post
Yes, I am serious. You know as well as I that there are plenty of "born again" Christians on this forum who have a pre-determined view of what born again means and that they will hide behind scripture without giving a full and whole hearted answer to the question. There are many 'born again' Christians on the forum who will tell you that Catholics are not Christians.

I am not attacking you, Hoosier. Please do not take it as that. I am just looking for clarification of what it means to be 'born again'. If you can find me scripture to explain that, I will accept it. However, I am only reading that one must be born again.

I, personally, cannot tell you of any life-changing moment in my life where I was "born again". I was baptized as an infant in a Methodist Church. I was raised by parents who taught me of the love of God and that he gave His only Son to die for my sins. I have always accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. I am a sinner and everyday I die and rise again to that sin. Everyday I ask God to forgive me of my sins. Before I receive the Eucharist I say, "Lord, I am not worthy to receive You, but only say the word and I shall be healed". These words fully depict who I am. I am not worthy. Only my Lord, my God, has the power to heal me. And only I have the power to accept His saving grace.
You sound like a Christian to me BUT do you recognize you are a horrible, vile, disgusting person in the eyes of God even though God sees you as righteous through the blood of Christ.

Are you hungering for His word, can't get enough, read your bible and pray everyday (do you feed your spirit first before your stomach) Have you died to yourself?
Can you not wait to go to church so you can fellowship with other Christians? When you meet a Christian on the street, does your conversation turn to God and how wonderfully merciful, kind He is.

Do you thank Him for the food you eat, the air you breathe, the ground you walk on?

Do you recognize Jesus to be your Lord and Savior; the Son of God who died for your sins.

Do you recognize there are no good works, there is nothing good you can do to enter heaven? that's it's 100% Him and His grace.

If so, then rejoice my brother, you are a Christian!
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,317,959 times
Reputation: 1008
Every Christian believe needs to watch this video

GodTube.com - Shocking Youth Message Stuns Hearers - So Shocking & Biblical
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