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When you spit something out of your mouth, do you not clean it up?
That came out of the book of Revelation, the last book. I would translate that verse to on the day of judgment. Therefore too late.
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We are all His creation - the "floor" containing those who have been "rejected" is His as well. Nothing is beyond His redeeming grace. What I don't understand is the questioning of faith by those who don't hold the reconciliation of all viewpoint.
I believe as well that nothing is beyond His redeeming grace. The road as a Christian is not easy, even the term "born again" has become subjective. This is something given to us and promised to us by God, where the Holy Spirit now dwells inside of you. If you have not had a radical change (now I am not talking sinning for a season-because we ALL struggle) then you are calling God a liar and blaspheming His name because where did the Holy Spirit go? Did He reside in you or not? if He did then you should have changed, if you haven't changed then the Holy Spirit isn't inside of you, then you are not born again nor a "TRUE" Christian.
I am not here to tell people what is a Christian, I am only telling people to reexamine their walk with the Lord if their walk has been lukewarm. There eternal destiny depends on it. Why take that chance? I would think it would be safer to have a stricter sense of the gospel than a loose one.
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Is this biblical view glorifying Him? Will He be glorified by a spirit of deception?
When I was younger and held a "heaven or else" view, I couldn't help but suspect His arm was shortened. I cant speak for other UR's, but I love Him more now, see Him as greater, and trust Him more deeply than when I could not see this.
Of course it is! Everything is to God's glory, when we are saved it gives God the glory, when we are punished it gives God the glory. I know what I am about say, will send you in a spin and many people in here BUT people going to hell will give God the glory because God is a just God and a just God who can't stand sin so He must punish sin because He is just, He follows His nature thereby giving Him the glory.
I know what I am about say, will send you in a spin and many people in here BUT people going to hell will give God the glory because God is a just God and a just God who can't stand sin so He must punish sin because He is just, He follows His nature thereby giving Him the glory.
I can think of one other way He will receive much greater glory...
So, who is to say that you're home safe? How can you dare say what God would do or say?
You'll learn all of the secrets just like everyone else will.
I agree, NOBODY knows whats in store and how hes going to judge.
Im a smoking Mormon, drink very little, I know thats socking but im a christian in progress. I wasnt born in the church I was baptised 1998 Ive stopped smoking and drinking but I go back and forth I dont believe hes not going to see my struggles with my weakness of the flesh, anymore then a person that eats themselves into the grave. I am a helper of others I could never turn away a person in need. I see alot of the fire and brim stone type attitudes and less loving compassionate Father.
The way we are told to see and feel the type of love our Father in Heaven has for us is to compare his love for us to the love we have for our own children, So dont think about it so quickly really think about it, we love our children how much??? to punish when needed, compassion when needed, listening , understanding, think about all the different things we show our own children thats what he feels for us his children on earth.
Now think about how easy it would be to throw one of your children away to endless torment, how easy would that be to give them up?
Reformed Liberal....How exciting for you. Isn't God good!
My parents became Christians in their 50's. My dad was an elder in the church, we had the youth group at our house. We all thought we were Christians because we were doing good things. My parents didn't drink, smoke or cuss. They thought God has some big balance scales and they were close enough!!!
My dad was pressured at work so he and my mom went to a state park for a get-away. They called to be sure they were not having something there that was loud. They said there was a Christian group and retreat. They thought, "oh good the Christian group will be quiet" They got up Saturday morning at seven to go hiking and the group was getting ready for a morning seminar. Well they though "who would get up at seven for a church meeting??? that's sort of a Sunday thing" They were talking about how to share your faith, they were using the "Four Spiritual Laws" booklet from Campus Crusade. Well they listened to the presentation and when it got to the part about it's not doing a list of do's and don't and not just going to church they realized they were not Christians. They prayed and asked Christ to come into their lives, forgive their sins and make them who He wanted them to be.
All I can tell you is that when they came home they were different. They had a hunger and thrist for God's word. They studied and prayed together and both started a deep, loving relationship with the living God.
I became a Christian a year later, and my next older brother about five years later.
When you are "born again" you see from different eyes. Suddenly you read God's word and things jump out at you. It is the peace that passes understanding.
Campus Crusade for Christ, in my PERSONAL experience are a very loving group...until they find out that one of their members is a Catholic. After that, you either convert to their brand of Christianity, or you get out. I chose to get out after being constantly HARRASSED! I'm not too bad when someone tells me that I'm going to hell for being Catholic, but the MINUTE you tell me that my family and my friends (many of my friends being priests and nuns and protestant ministers and are VERY HOLY people) are going to hell, then you cross the line with me.
It really saddens me to see some of these posts. People throwing scripture at each other. 6 different people with 6 different interpretations of one passage. In the thread on Catholics, someone CUT AND PASTED biggoted anti-Catholic propeganda. It's my opinion that a lot of people are brainwashed by this propeganda. I would HIGHLY advise to NOT DRINK THE KOOL-AID if it is offered to you.
People talk about being 'born-again' and throw these scriptures at me, but no one has given a personal interpretation of what this means. People have argued that by being baptized as an infant, I didn't make my own choice. Well, theoretically, I did. I didn't HAVE to finish out CCD and get confirmed, but I did. If you met me in person, I'm actually fairly quiet and shy. Now, in my line of work, I've gone to church for 911 calls for what some in the business call "Church Lady Syndrome," or the newest one I heard was "TMJ" - Too Much Jesus. I've seen the "holy-roller" type churches. The screaming and hollering and carrying on. I've been to so called Non-denominational services where they'd sing for an hour, get an hour lecture, then sing for another hour. That didn't make sense to me. That wasn't worship to me. I enjoy being the quiet one at Mass. I enjoyed being the last one out of the church on Holy Thursday after kneeling in front of the Tabernacle ignoring those around me (who were also very quiet) and it just being Jesus and myself. There is a story in the Bible about an old poor man and a younger rich man. The younger rich man went up to the very front of the church, made HUGE sacrifices in repentence for his sins. The old poor man entered, stood at the very back, bowed his head, tapped his hand to his chest, and very quietly said, "Forgive me, Lord, for I am a sinner." And honestly, I can definitely see the difference between the two types on this board...and once again...it really saddens me.
Last edited by Morale Officer; 10-17-2008 at 03:57 PM..
Campus Crusade for Christ, in my PERSONAL experience are a very loving group...until they find out that one of their members is a Catholic. After that, you either convert to their brand of Christianity, or you get out. I chose to get out after being constantly HARRASSED! I'm not too bad when someone tells me that I'm going to hell for being Catholic, but the MINUTE you tell me that my family and my friends (many of my friends being priests and nuns and protestant ministers and are VERY HOLY people) are going to hell, then you cross the line with me.
So you say you're a Christian. What defines you as a Christian? Are you a cultural Christian? A cultural Christian by definition is one who lives by the standards of the culture around him/her. A cultural Christian says we should love everyone and forget about sin because that is not loving. Are cultural Christians truly Christians? That is between the person and God. However you must ask youself, "Have I been born again? Have I received Jesus into my heart and life and am I living a holy and righteous life before God?"
If you have truly been born again then by all means you will go to heaven and live eternally with the Father. Our Creator. Many will say that it's not fair or it's narrow minded to think in this manner. The words I've written here are found in the Bible and are the truth of God.
Many will stand before God and say, "But I did this and that in your name," and He will say "Away from me you evildoers, I never knew you." What an awful and horrible day that will be for men/women who hear those words.
Are you a Christian? The only true Christian is one who has received Christ as Savior. The rest are Christians in name only.
Thanks for that. But how do you know you'll be among the elect?
Hoosier, I do not meet the criteria of being a "born again" Christian because typically "born again" folks do not accept the sacrament of Holy Baptism administered to an infant as having any meaning. I have not had some "magical moment" but a life of reflection, study, and accepting Christ as my savior.
Hoosier, please go back and talk with your Lutheran pastor friend. As a lifelong Lutheran I can tell you that we believe Baptism and Communion are not simple "outward expressions" of our faith [as you stated] but rather true sacraments where God is actually present "in with and under" the elements. This actually means the Spirit of the Lord is present, enters the child, and the whole church community agrees to support raising that infant as a child of God. For most people of my faith, this is the "born again" experience, which does not negatve that God can and does interact in our lives often in dramatic ways - but also accepts that there is no preordained 'experience" required to accept God.
This is not the same as the Roman Catholic believe in transubstantion [in relationship to Holy Communion] and view the Mass a bit differently than Lutherans do [though, once again, Communion is not simply ceremonial], and does not encompass other things they consider to be sacraments the Lutheran Church does not - just stating a fact, not a judgement of Roman Catholocism. I mention the Church only because of your reference to a Lutheran pastor. I think all demoninations bring a unique way to view God but God is bigger than all of them.
I will trust God to put the constaints on who will enter his kingdom, believing he wants all of us to be his children, and not human interpretations of God's mind. While his followers should live a Godly life, I believe you can repent at deaths door after living a heinous life. God's grace is for all who accept him and is freely given - I believe no one can do enough good works to earn favor in God's eye. All have fallen short.
God is so big, I cannot say that I would constain him from allowing people of other faith's in his kingdom either.
Last edited by grannynancy; 10-17-2008 at 04:12 PM..
Exactly God didn't really leave any type of measurement system for us to follow now did he?
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Originally Posted by driftwoodpoint
"For by Grace we are saved through Faith, not as a result of works, that no man can boast" We are saved by faith in Christ, through his grace. It is not as a result of works. If it is works than how much is enough??? That last buck in the offering plate and God says, "oh that will do it". That would be a life of fear, always wondering if you have done enough, been good enough, were up to His standards. Plus if we have anything to do in our salvation than it surely is less than perfect! His standards are perfection and none of us meet those standards. Only Christ, the lamb of God, could be the perfect sacrifice for our sins.
We do good works out of thanksgiving for all God has done for us. I give money, help others, etc because God's love spills over to me because of His grace and love for me. The fruits of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, self-control, all grow inside of us and we demonstrate God's love through how we treat others. They see that and understand how God love them. We are salt and light to the world.
The Bible says even Satan believes in God. But Satan sure does not yeild to God or has surrended his will to God. A Christian gives over his heart and will and life when he accepts God's gift of life through what Christ did on the cross. He lives in us through his Holy Spirit and works out his will through us.
As a lifelong Lutheran I can tell you that we believe Baptism and Communion are not simple "outward expressions" of our faith [as you stated] but rather true sacraments where God is actually present "in with and under" the elements. This actually means the Spirit of the Lord is present, enters the child, and the whole church community agrees to support raising that infant as a child of God.
When I stated that they are outward expressions I was in no way minimizing the impact they have on a believer's life, and the lives of people around them. I believe these events are extremely important and integral in our spiritual growth. What I was trying to say is that baptism, communion and confirmation are not prerequsites to get into heaven. The only thing that is needed to get into heaven is to receive Jesus as Lord, ie: to be born again.
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I agree, NOBODY knows whats in store and how hes going to judge.
but im a christian in progress. I wasnt born in the church I was baptised 1998 Ive stopped smoking and drinking but I go back and forth
I dont believe hes not going to see my struggles with my weakness of the flesh, anymore then a person that eats themselves into the grave. I am a helper of others I could never turn away a person in need. I see alot of the fire and brim stone type attitudes and less loving compassionate Father.
that's sort of a Sunday thing" They were talking about how to share your faith, they were using the "Four Spiritual Laws" booklet from Campus Crusade. Well they listened to the presentation and when it got to the part about it's not doing a list of do's and don't and not just going to church they realized they were not Christians. They prayed and asked Christ to come into their lives, forgive their sins and make them who He wanted them to be. 
