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Old 10-17-2008, 02:33 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,263,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
Alpha did you watch the WHOLE video?

I used to curse many years ago....I dont now.
We all have issues we need to deal with but me cursing every week isn't repenting.
No, renriq, I haven't watched the whole video. I got to like the 25 minute mark and had to stop.

I'll reserve further comments until I do but for the record, I would like you and Reformed Liberal to tell me whether you believe in the doctrine of Lordship Salvation.
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,116,995 times
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I'll reserve further comments until you watch the whole video. thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
No, renriq, I haven't watched the whole video. I got to like the 25 minute mark and had to stop.

I'll reserve further comments until I do but for the record, I would like you and Reformed Liberal to tell me whether you believe in the doctrine of Lordship Salvation.
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:37 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,466,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur View Post
Alpha, I did a little quick research and what I found was is that there are some within the churches who believe repentance before faith and those who believe the opposite. To be honest with you, I never thought about that before. I remember I just got down on my knees one night and asked God to come into my life. Was there faith before that or after? I'm not sure but I know that it took something for me to get down on my knees that night.
Repentance means, a change of mind- The full Biblical definition of repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of action. You couldn't get on your knees if you didn't change your carnal mind that the word of God was not true.
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
No, renriq, I haven't watched the whole video. I got to like the 25 minute mark and had to stop.

I'll reserve further comments until I do but for the record, I would like you and Reformed Liberal to tell me whether you believe in the doctrine of Lordship Salvation.
Hmmmm....yes and no. I understand that certain Christians grow faster than others and I would never judge someone's salvation based on their spiritual maturity but at the same time the Bible also states that a life changes after salvation.

I myself as a Christian ere on the side of caution and strive for righteousness doing my best to rid myself of any secret sins that I am diving into. A person who has been delivered from sin by faith in Christ should not desire to remain in a life of sin but at the same time "lordship Salvation" has nothing to do with salvation
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:52 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,263,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
Hmmmm....yes and no. I understand that certain Christians grow faster than others and I would never judge someone's salvation based on their spiritual maturity but at the same time the Bible also states that a life changes after salvation.

I myself as a Christian ere on the side of caution and strive for righteousness doing my best to rid myself of any secret sins that I am diving into. A person who has been delivered from sin by faith in Christ should not desire to remain in a life of sin but at the same time "lordship Salvation" has nothing to do with salvation
Thank you. You seem much more interested in discussion than others.

This has come up before, by the way. I had an encounter in a SS class I was teaching last year:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...tion-what.html

And here's a post I made. It pretty much sums up my thoughts. In short, I believe Paul was a Christian and that He was saved. Lordship Salvation folks can not believe Paul was saved and hold on to their doctrine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I imagine it would cause someone to be troubled, and hence this very thread.

Here's my thoughts though, since you asked.

I know the argument, indeed I seemingly argued for it in this forum some time back...I may try and dig those volleys out and send them to you for you to take a look at, in case I miss something here.

Without 'cheating' and assuming I know everything a proponant of this theology would throw out there, let me see if I can boil it down to a simple explanation of where I am.

In short, I can't save myself. Nothing I can do. Nothing I can say. Nothing I can....nothing! So, salvation at it's simplist form rest on the shoulders of our LORD(yeah, I said it) and Savior, Jesus Christ. So THAT and THAT alone is salvation.....

BUT/AND!!!!!!

After realizing and accepting the need of a Savior, quite clearly some changes are in order. So, you begin to repent from sin, which to really get that you have to understand the word for repentance doesn't necessarily mean you stop sinning, especially since no one I know ever has! But it means a 'change of mind', in other words, what you used to be OK with now you despise, even though you may do it.

Even Paul said
"I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."
I bolded a phrase in this passage to highlight the point I'm making. If Lordship salvation were accurate, Paul's salvation would be questionable. Of course it isn't and something else that isn't questionable is Paul's repentance. Obviously, he's 'changed his mind' regarding sin in his life.

So where am I going and what am I saying?

I'm saying that we cannot attach anything man-made to salvation, it comes from God through Christ and Christ alone. BUT that salvation is 'proved out', if you will, by constant submission, repentance, and devotion to Christ, His teachings, and His way of thinking.

Lordship Salvation looks like this:
Christ+man's submission=Salvation
Alpha's Opinion looks like this:

Christ=Salvation and Salvation=Submission and Lordship.
Any thoughts?
I believe you and I might be in agreement, Reformed Liberal, but I bet if you really knew me, you'd doubt I was saved. I still sin.

When I say 'really knew me' I mean knew my thoughts, who I am when I fall, who I am when I'm not reading my bible, when that guy pulls out in front of me in traffic, when the attractive woman is in line with me at the grocery.....you know...know me like Christ knows me. But He knows, and that's all that matters.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,116,995 times
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hmmmm and He said to the prostitute...

go and sin no more.


Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:19 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,466,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I believe you and I might be in agreement, Reformed Liberal, but I bet if you really knew me, you'd doubt I was saved. I still sin.

When I say 'really knew me' I mean knew my thoughts, who I am when I fall, who I am when I'm not reading my bible, when that guy pulls out in front of me in traffic, when the attractive woman is in line with me at the grocery.....you know...know me like Christ knows me. But He knows, and that's all that matters.
That was insightful, thank you.

Look not to get in competition here. I am probably a bigger sinner than you. I am despicable, hideous, disgusting, vial in the eyes of God and no one more than me can appreciate what Jesus did for me on that cross.

Everybody sins, that is true and the bible even talks about sinning for a season but if you truly are saved then why are you embracing sin.
There is a big difference in swearing at a guy who cuts you off in traffic when you are a guy who hates your sin and is praying to God to work on that as oppose to a gentleman who gets dressed, gets in his car, starts it, goes through 10 lights, the freeway, parks his car, stands in line to get in the strip club continuously. What if this person died in a car accident after so many trips. Would you be that confident in his salvation?

From what I have read in the bible if you are diving into sin then you were never changed to begin with and you are a false convert. There are many atheists who "gave" their heart to the Lord and now they jokingly blaspheme His name everyday on these boards.

Are they still Christian? Are they only sinning for a season as well?
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:24 PM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 4,309,247 times
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The only thing that I have gathered from this thread is that there are some among us who do not sin. WOW. I don't know anyone like that.

Good on you.

<><

Last edited by weatherologist; 10-17-2008 at 03:27 PM.. Reason: left a few words out. sorry, I was yelling at my kids.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:36 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,466,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherologist View Post
The only thing that I have gathered from this thread is that there are some among us who do not sin. WOW. I don't know anyone like that.

Good on you.

<><
Well you gathered wrong because no one has said any such thing. There is a difference between falling into sin (sins you are working on) as oppose to diving into sin (embracing, wallowing, hiding, unrepentant)

Secondly, Do we know all the sins? No. We are probably sinning as Christians and have no clue.
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