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Old 10-18-2008, 11:28 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,554,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
And now go to the next part of this sermon in Chapter 8, and notice the big multiple, multiple "IF"s. It would seem there is conditions here, and these become evident.

Rom 8:9
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But IF anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

IF Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

But IF the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

So then, brethren, we are under obligation(ORDERS), not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--for IF you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but IF by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
This is simply a before-and-after clause to me - He will pour out His spirit on all flesh. (Acts 2:17)
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:46 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,372,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
This is simply a before-and-after clause to me - He will pour out His spirit on all flesh. (Acts 2:17)
Will? Has? Or currently is?

2Cr 7:1
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us CLEANSE ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, PERFECTING HOLINESS in the fear of God.

Paul is saying what exactly? Prior Chapter

2Cr 6:14
Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?


2Cr 6:16
Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we ARE the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:42 PM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,031,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Isn't Hebrews 9 27-28 talking about how He died as a Lamb, but now "appears" as our High Priest for Salvation?



Luk 17:20
Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;nor will they say, 'Look, here {it is!}' or, 'There {it is!}' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."
Hi HotinAZ,

I believe one is not without the other .

Luke 24
7saying that (G)the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again."
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,454,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
I don't see how its possible to live a life completely without sin. If we could, we wouldn't need a Savior. Of course we should never sin willingly.
Jesus said; "to you who can believe, all things are possible".

Why would our perfect heavenly Father create children that could not be like Him? What's the point of that.

Jesus didn't just come to die for the sins of the world, He came to show us how to overcome the cause of death.... "Sin".


godspeed,


freedom
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,605,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Jesus said; "to you who can believe, all things are possible".

Why would our perfect heavenly Father create children that could not be like Him? What's the point of that.

Jesus didn't just come to die for the sins of the world, He came to show us how to overcome the cause of death.... "Sin".


godspeed,


freedom
He created us to be perfect, but the plan was defiled when Adam ate of the fruit. Because of that, our flesh has sin nature of which we can't escape. If it wasn't for Christ's love and forgiveness, we would have no hope.

I grew up in a very conservative Baptist denomination but have never once heard the doctrine that after salvation, one is required to be totally perfect. We are to strive to be perfect, but we will always come short because of our human nature.
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,454,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
He created us to be perfect, but the plan was defiled when Adam ate of the fruit. Because of that, our flesh has sin nature of which we can't escape. If it wasn't for Christ's love and forgiveness, we would have no hope.


I grew up in a very conservative Baptist denomination but have never once heard the doctrine that after salvation, one is required to be totally perfect. We are to strive to be perfect, but we will always come short because of our human nature.
Jesus taught very little on being saved, and very much on overcoming sin and walking as He walked. He said twice...thy faith hath saved thee.

If we are to strive to be perfect, then it is possible to become it, God would not give a command without preparing the way for it to be fulfilled. Hungering and thirsting brings about being filled.

As well be renewed by the renewing of the mind.
Be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect
Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee

just words? nope.


How about Enoch, he pleased God and did not taste of death. We know the wages of sin is death... could it be he overcame sin?

How about Elijah, he also did not die....?

Job was called a perfect man, as well as quite a few of the prophets, all pre cross.

Could it be that the cross is mercy for the many that die in their sins, and the walk is for those few that have ears to hear?

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:50 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,372,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
He created us to be perfect, but the plan was defiled when Adam ate of the fruit.
But since Jesus has restored this perfection, so it so impossible to achieve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Because of that, our flesh has sin nature of which we can't escape.
Of course not. This is what Jesus did. He said He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. This is why we must be Born in the Spirit. Do you only think this happens "after" death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
If it wasn't for Christ's love and forgiveness, we would have no hope.
Agreed, but most importantly, the Father's Love as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
I grew up in a very conservative Baptist denomination but have never once heard the doctrine that after salvation, one is required to be totally perfect. We are to strive to be perfect, but we will always come short because of our human nature.
Saying "we will always come short" is, to me, a cop-out. Jesus says to be perfect. John says that no who sins, "present tense", knows Him, or has Him abiding in Him. Paul says to abstain from ALL immorality. Jude says their will be false teachers, as well as the rest.

So all the Commands were for what? Striving?
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:19 PM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,031,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
But since Jesus has restored this perfection, so it so impossible to achieve?



Of course not. This is what Jesus did. He said He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. This is why we must be Born in the Spirit. Do you only think this happens "after" death?



Agreed, but most importantly, the Father's Love as well.



Saying "we will always come short" is, to me, a cop-out. Jesus says to be perfect. John says that no who sins, "present tense", knows Him, or has Him abiding in Him. Paul says to abstain from ALL immorality. Jude says their will be false teachers, as well as the rest.

So all the Commands were for what? Striving?

Hi HotinAZ,

Jesus in the Gospels said there will be false teachers. Jude cited this here.
17But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."



Jude was identifying the occurrence not that there will be, because it starts:

4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
It is similar to John who also identified the apostasy.

Last edited by gwynedd1; 10-18-2008 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,605,230 times
Reputation: 4457
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Jesus taught very little on being saved, and very much on overcoming sin and walking as He walked. He said twice...thy faith hath saved thee.

If we are to strive to be perfect, then it is possible to become it, God would not give a command without preparing the way for it to be fulfilled. Hungering and thirsting brings about being filled.

As well be renewed by the renewing of the mind.
Be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect
Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee

just words? nope.


How about Enoch, he pleased God and did not taste of death. We know the wages of sin is death... could it be he overcame sin?

How about Elijah, he also did not die....?

Job was called a perfect man, as well as quite a few of the prophets, all pre cross.

Could it be that the cross is mercy for the many that die in their sins, and the walk is for those few that have ears to hear?

godspeed,

freedom
Are you telling me that since you have been saved, you have never told any little white lie? Have you ever went 1 mph over the speed limit? Ever looked at a woman other than your wife (assuming you are married) and thought she was attractive? Ever accidentally slipped a curse word? Ever see a non-G rated movie?

Last edited by bchris02; 10-18-2008 at 05:17 PM..
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,454,441 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Are you telling me that since you have been saved, you have never told any little white lie? Have you ever went 1 mph over the speed limit? Ever looked at a woman other than your wife (assuming you are married) and thought she was attractive? Ever accidentally slipped a curse word? Ever see a non-G rated movie?
Does that mean you are not going to address my post?

Did Jesus teach us to continue in sin, or go and sin no more?

godspeed,

freedom
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