Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I disagree here. Even Paul said he still struggled with his fleshly nature. Yes, we will strive not to sin, but our flesh is still there and it will be a constant struggle.
As for the second coming, God's time is not our time.
1st John 3 would seem to disagree with you. Also the commands of Jesus would disagree with you, unless you think He was asking something of those people, He KNEW they couldn't keep.
Quote:
As for the second coming, God's time is not our time.
And I would suppose that it isn't Jesus's time either.
Mat 24:36
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
How many "second" comings are there, or do you believe that He wasn't present in the Old Testament? Or that He revealed Himself to the witnesses that watched Him ascend, or to Paul who saw, or to John who was given the Revelation of Jesus? How about Mary who witnessed Him after the grave? How about Stephen when he was stoned? How about the countless others who say they have saw Him, or have had some sort of a revealing of Him.
I disagree here. Even Paul said he still struggled with his fleshly nature. Yes, we will strive not to sin, but our flesh is still there and it will be a constant struggle.
We are flesh (soul) and spirit - they war against each other. The seed of Christ is without sin, while the flesh will sin until it's dead.
It's enough material for a sermon, but the soul (which makes up our emotions and carnal life) must be brought under submission to the spirit, which has been renewed and is being brought in union with Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02
As for the second coming, God's time is not our time.
I don't disagree with this, but as you can tell from the previous posts, I am seeking the terminology in the "second coming".
Think about this for a second, while using the Bible as a source.
If Jesus came the first time, but only for the "lost sheep of the house of Israel",,
Mat 15:24
But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Would it then be not presumptuous that He would only "come" and reveal Himself in the Spirit to those who are His as well, or even to those who believe in the Father?
So, I guess what I am after is this.
How does one have faith, if there is "proof"? If Jesus came back so that ANY multitude of flesh who didn't believe witnessed this, then how could this be justified for the millions who died, prior to this coming? And why when He came the "first" time, even though He has ALWAYS been present, would He then come back to the entire world the "second" time, even to those who don't or refuse to believe in Father?
He only comes for those that are His, those that live and keep His commandments, so only they experience the "second" coming. The rest either go into outer darkness or are part of the ressurections to come.
This is probably the most butchered topic in Christianity. You may take note each of these churches are given the proposition separately. Can one church's failure fall upon another? These are also all in judgment, they don't want Jesus to come to them.
Turning to the arrival of Jesus that we actually want in Acts 1 only the men in Galilee saw him leave. Why would the whole world see him come back in like manner?
Hebrews 9
27And inasmuch as (CA)it is appointed for men to die once and after this (CB)comes judgment,
28so Christ also, having been (CC)offered once to (CD)bear the sins of many, will appear (CE)a second time for (CF)salvation (CG)without reference to sin, to those who (CH)eagerly await Him.
This seems to me that we are rescued from physical death in this manner. We know certainly he visited Paul(Acts 9) and John(Revelation).
Lastly in 2 Thessolonians they thought Jesus had come. Now why would they think that if Paul told them it would be so obvious to see? Jesus said the kingdom does not come with observation but is in you midst. The tares grow with the wheat(Matthew 13), the wolf will graze with the lamb(Isaiah 65).
Isn't Hebrews 9 27-28 talking about how He died as a Lamb, but now "appears" as our High Priest for Salvation?
Quote:
Jesus said the kingdom does not come with observation but is in you midst.
Luk 17:20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;nor will they say, 'Look, here {it is!}' or, 'There {it is!}' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."
I disagree here. Even Paul said he still struggled with his fleshly nature. Yes, we will strive not to sin, but our flesh is still there and it will be a constant struggle.
As for the second coming, God's time is not our time.
Did Paul not continue to grow in Christ as and after he wrote his letters?
We don't have the degrees or details of Paul's walk, we have some of them.
He certainly was given power over death, as they killed him quite a few times until his ultimate martyrdom, and he did not continue in sin, as he taught the church to walk without stain, and to not crucify Christ again putting Him to an open shame.
As well he saw the kingdom of heaven and was beyond mortal boundaries.
Did Paul not continue to grow in Christ as and after he wrote his letters?
We don't have the degrees or details of Paul's walk, we have some of them.
He certainly was given power over death, as they killed him quite a few times until his ultimate martyrdom, and he did not continue in sin, as he taught the church to walk without stain, and to not crucify Christ again putting Him to an open shame.
As well he saw the kingdom of heaven and was beyond mortal boundaries.
godspeed,
freedom
I don't see how its possible to live a life completely without sin. If we could, we wouldn't need a Savior. Of course we should never sin willingly.
Did Paul not continue to grow in Christ as and after he wrote his letters?
We don't have the degrees or details of Paul's walk, we have some of them.
He certainly was given power over death, as they killed him quite a few times until his ultimate martyrdom, and he did not continue in sin, as he taught the church to walk without stain, and to not crucify Christ again putting Him to an open shame.
As well he saw the kingdom of heaven and was beyond mortal boundaries.
godspeed,
freedom
See, I always thought that if Paul was sending a letter by courier to Rome, it would be nothing less than a sermon, in it's entirety. It starts with we all fall short of the Glory of God, and ends up in perfection, as the manifestations take place. This can't happen while willingly sinning, as John says
1Jo 3:6
No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
Jo 5:18
We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
And Paul says:
1st Cor 1:4-8
I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So there are those who are actively awaiting our Lord's Revelation, today. There are those who are becoming blameless. There are those the Spirit is enriching with knowledge and speech. Gifts are given.
So, I suppose my point is this.
If a first century church in Corinth can eagerly await their revelation, and had Paul minister to them, to help show them Jesus's Way and His teachings, why can't we today? Don't you think we should be, instead of kinking our necks "looking" upward. Shouldn't we be actively seeking His face and following His Teachings, instead of sensationalizing the so called "second coming", or like some major pastors have done, promoting it to the extreme, almost making the event happen by force? Changing policies of governments, and backing political leaders, who follow the end of days teachings.
I don't see how its possible to live a life completely without sin. If we could, we wouldn't need a Savior. Of course we should never sin willingly.
You would always need a Savior, as ALL have sinned and fall short of God's Glory. But after receiving the forgiveness, for falling in the first place after coming into the knowledge of sin, through the Law, why would one continue in this trek? Jesus says He will indwell that person who is made new, and they would be "Born-Again", but John says those who have been B-A cannot sin, BECAUSE Christ IS dwelling in them.
Romans 7:15-20 is the classic war between life (the spirit) and death (the flesh) within us.
And now go to the next part of this sermon in Chapter 8, and notice the big multiple, multiple "IF"s. It would seem there is conditions here, and these become evident.
Rom 8:9
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, IFindeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But IF anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
IFChrist is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
But IF the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
So then, brethren, we are under obligation(ORDERS), not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--for IF you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but IF by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
