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Old 10-18-2008, 07:33 AM
 
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I was curious to see how this doctrine of the "Second" coming of Christ developed throughout the centuries. And how it seems to be the primary driving force behind most of todays theological discussions. We have everything from the hard fought debates on the "Rapture", to the years being proclaimed on His return.

Jesus the Christ was adamant that He would return, but never said when. Said He didn't know! Even in Revelations He said "coming quickly". Not just once, but 5 times.

Rev 2:16
'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.


Rev 3:11
'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown."

Rev 22:7
"And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book."

Rev 22:12
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward {is} with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

Rev 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

Jesus said that many will come in His name.

Luke 21:8
And He said, "See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in Myname, saying, 'I am' and, 'The time is near.' Do not go after them.

Why would Jesus say not to follow those who claim to be from Christ?

He gives us the answer:

He warned of those who say they ARE Annointed, and those who say the TIME is NEAR!!!
There will be MANY mislead, not a few, as Jesus stated here:

Mark 13:16
"Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am' and will mislead many.


The sadness is, that Jesus actually proved Himself as coming in the Father's Name. He did this with His actions, and with His Father's Power, while remaining faithful and sinless to His end.

John 5:45
"I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:51 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,005 times
Reputation: 580
John 14:16
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

His Promise to us who believe AND:

Jhn 14:21
"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Is this a "coming"? If so, which one?
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:08 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,561,355 times
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God is spirit.

Why seek ye the living among the dead?
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,459,480 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
John 14:16
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

His Promise to us who believe AND:

Jhn 14:21
"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Is this a "coming"? If so, which one?

It is the one that is personal, when any man or woman is prepared to receive Him, He will appear to them and show them the Father.

If we look at the teachings of Jesus... It is all about life, life everlasting, life eternal.

He said let the dead bury their dead, and to join Him among the living.

He said that if you believe in Him, ye shall "never" see death.

If we follow the teachings of Jesus, then we walk in the light, the straight and narrow, through love. Then we will be wrapped in the power and glory of our maker, and be caught up to dwell with Him.

This is the path that is available to all, though few find. It is the path of the quickened, the elect, the Saints.

And Enoch was translated that he should not see death, and before his translation he had this testimony... that he pleased God. Everyone that seeks to please God knows that God is a rewarder of those that seek Him.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:01 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,005 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
God is spirit.

Why seek ye the living among the dead?



Jesus says we must be born of the Spirit. Yes, God is Spirit, but we have His promise of His Coming to us, as told by Him, in the previous post where I provided the verses. If we are truly Born Again from above, hasn't He come? He lives within those who are Born Again from above, no different than our earthly parents live within us.

Jhn 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot SEE the kingdom of God."

Jhn 3:8
"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone
who is born of the Spirit."

Jesus says the Light of the Father comes into those who follow Him. This is how we are to discern who is, and who is not, a Born Again believer. By their words, actions, and deeds.


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Old 10-18-2008, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,459,480 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post



Jesus says we must be born of the Spirit. Yes, God is Spirit, but we have His promise of His Coming to us, as told by Him, in the previous post where I provided the verses. If we are truly Born Again from above, hasn't He come? He lives within those who are Born Again from above, no different than our earthly parents live within us.

Jhn 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot SEE the kingdom of God."

Jhn 3:8
"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone
who is born of the Spirit."

Jesus says the Light of the Father comes into those who follow Him. This is how we are to discern who is, and who is not, a Born Again believer. By their words, actions, and deeds.



One that is truly born again does not sin, and they can come and go as the wind. Born of God and perfected are one and the same.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:38 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,561,355 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post


Jesus says we must be born of the Spirit. Yes, God is Spirit, but we have His promise of His Coming to us, as told by Him, in the previous post where I provided the verses. If we are truly Born Again from above, hasn't He come? He lives within those who are Born Again from above, no different than our earthly parents live within us.

Jhn 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot SEE the kingdom of God."

Jhn 3:8
"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Jesus says the Light of the Father comes into those who follow Him. This is how we are to discern who is, and who is not, a Born Again believer. By their words, actions, and deeds.
I'm misunderstanding your questions, as I agree with you.

I am not looking for a literal, physical second coming but rather His spirit endwelling a people that will represent Him in the earth.
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:41 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,005 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
It is the one that is personal, when any man or woman is prepared to receive Him, He will appear to them and show them the Father.

If we look at the teachings of Jesus... It is all about life, life everlasting, life eternal.

He said let the dead bury their dead, and to join Him among the living.

He said that if you believe in Him, ye shall "never" see death.

If we follow the teachings of Jesus, then we walk in the light, the straight and narrow, through love. Then we will be wrapped in the power and glory of our maker, and be caught up to dwell with Him.

This is the path that is available to all, though few find. It is the path of the quickened, the elect, the Saints.

And Enoch was translated that he should not see death, and before his translation he had this testimony... that he pleased God. Everyone that seeks to please God knows that God is a rewarder of those that seek Him.

godspeed,

freedom
I don't disagree with this, but as you can tell from the previous posts, I am seeking the terminology in the "second coming".

Think about this for a second, while using the Bible as a source.

If Jesus came the first time, but only for the "lost sheep of the house of Israel",,

Mat 15:24
But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."


Would it then be not presumptuous that He would only "come" and reveal Himself in the Spirit to those who are His as well, or even to those who believe in the Father?

So, I guess what I am after is this.

How does one have faith, if there is "proof"? If Jesus came back so that ANY multitude of flesh who didn't believe witnessed this, then how could this be justified for the millions who died, prior to this coming? And why when He came the "first" time, even though He has ALWAYS been present, would He then come back to the entire world the "second" time, even to those who don't or refuse to believe in Father?
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,615,305 times
Reputation: 4457
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
One that is truly born again does not sin, and they can come and go as the wind. Born of God and perfected are one and the same.

godspeed,

freedom
I disagree here. Even Paul said he still struggled with his fleshly nature. Yes, we will strive not to sin, but our flesh is still there and it will be a constant struggle.

As for the second coming, God's time is not our time.
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:02 AM
 
17,750 posts, read 15,043,922 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I was curious to see how this doctrine of the "Second" coming of Christ developed throughout the centuries. And how it seems to be the primary driving force behind most of todays theological discussions. We have everything from the hard fought debates on the "Rapture", to the years being proclaimed on His return.

Jesus the Christ was adamant that He would return, but never said when. Said He didn't know! Even in Revelations He said "coming quickly". Not just once, but 5 times.

Rev 2:16
'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.


Rev 3:11
'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown."

Rev 22:7
"And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book."

Rev 22:12
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward {is} with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

Rev 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

Jesus said that many will come in His name.

Luke 21:8
And He said, "See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in Myname, saying, 'I am' and, 'The time is near.' Do not go after them.

Why would Jesus say not to follow those who claim to be from Christ?

He gives us the answer:

He warned of those who say they ARE Annointed, and those who say the TIME is NEAR!!!
There will be MANY mislead, not a few, as Jesus stated here:

Mark 13:16
"Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am' and will mislead many.


The sadness is, that Jesus actually proved Himself as coming in the Father's Name. He did this with His actions, and with His Father's Power, while remaining faithful and sinless to His end.

John 5:45
"I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.

Hi HotinAZ,

This is probably the most butchered topic in Christianity. You may take note each of these churches are given the proposition separately. Can one church's failure fall upon another? These are also all in judgment, they don't want Jesus to come to them.
Turning to the arrival of Jesus that we actually want in Acts 1 only the men in Galilee saw him leave. Why would the whole world see him come back in like manner?

Hebrews 9
27And inasmuch as (CA)it is appointed for men to die once and after this (CB)comes judgment,
28so Christ also, having been (CC)offered once to (CD)bear the sins of many, will appear (CE)a second time for (CF)salvation (CG)without reference to sin, to those who (CH)eagerly await Him.

This seems to me that we are rescued from physical death in this manner. We know certainly he visited Paul(Acts 9) and John(Revelation).

Lastly in 2 Thessolonians they thought Jesus had come. Now why would they think that if Paul told them it would be so obvious to see? Jesus said the kingdom does not come with observation but is in you midst. The tares grow with the wheat(Matthew 13), the wolf will graze with the lamb(Isaiah 65).
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