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Old 10-20-2008, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,122,831 times
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please do not take the word of God out of context

He came to accomplish the law and to give meaning to the law not to STOP them.

Read the WHOLE passage not just one verse

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:22 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,481,031 times
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Yes, the old was the 'school master', but once you have 'graduated' do you still need the 'school master"? It was the school master to bring us to Christ. When Christ was resurrected we 'graduated' from the old and were given the new. (And yes, I am paraphrasing.)

Quote:
John 15 9:!2)

9"Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. End of Quote

This scripture makes it very plain that "My Father's commandments" and "My Commandments" are two differant commandments.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:24 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,470,092 times
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(Matthew 27 37:40)
37And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38"This is the great and foremost commandment.
39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
40"On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

(Deuteronomy 6:5) OLD TESTAMENT
5 "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength".
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:25 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,570,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
please show us in the bible where it says the 'laws have been fulfilled'?
Gal. 5:13 ¶ For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
These scriptures (and many others) explain the relationship of the old and the new law. We have liberty.. but only as we follow the inward law, as written by the Spirit. If we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. The Old Testament law was weak in this.. you could follow all the laws to the letter, and still be "lustful" (pride, etc) in spirit, as the Pharisees were.
Quote:
Is this why Paul went and circumcised Timothy who was a half jew?

The bible clearly says in Acts that the Gentiles were to follow the 4 rules that was given...but who says that also applies to Jews?
The church made decisions how to operate, and had guidelines.. but these were not laws that saved. I believe that Paul circumcised Timothy to not cause offence, and not because it was a requirement.



Quote:
It's also funny how Pastors/Preachers like to 'pick/choose' what they want from the OT.
Like tithing...where is it commanded in the NT?
Drinking liquor/wine. where is it commanded in the NT?

Tithing is WRONG as the pastors/preach it. You're not supposed to use it to pay the electric, pastor's salary, etc. It clearly states what you're supposed to do with it in Deuteronomy. Most pastors dont want to teach from there but would rather teach it from Malachi.

Drinking wine. Not in the NT but pastors says it's wrong to drink. It's actually commanded in the OT to drink wine. Most people are afraid that they will get drunk if they drink 1 glass of wine.

This is the issue with what you wrote.
People will say God convicted me about this/that, and now everyone must follow it. I have heard pastors say that God convicted them of drinking...they weren't getting drunk but God still convicted them of drinking. THAT'S WRONG in so many ways.

To say we should now overlook the bible with what we are now 'convicted with' leaves the door open to sin.

The bible IS the foundation, and conviction is something 'more' but we should always compare it with the bible.
I hope no one will think that I am giving license to sin.. Paul spoke about exactly that in the above verses from Galations I quoted. And you are right that we need to make sure our direction lines up with Scripture. Truth will not contradict itself.

Quote:
Also, I dont recall the bible saying that we will have 'new' laws written in our hearts.
It was prophesied in Jeremiah:
Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
...and shown to be fulfilled in Hebrews:
Heb. 8: 6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
This is the new dispensation, the time we are living in now.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:27 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,470,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
Yes, the old was the 'school master', but once you have 'graduated' do you still need the 'school master"? It was the school master to bring us to Christ. When Christ was resurrected we 'graduated' from the old and were given the new. (And yes, I am paraphrasing.)
Oh you have graduated have you well please tell me the secret because I am still failing miserably?
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:28 PM
 
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CG81 until you can find scripture that tells us to put away the Law you really don't have a valid argument not to mention how can you please God without the Law and how can you love God without the Law? and by the way judging from your scriptures you need a book of hermeneutics.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:32 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,470,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Gal. 5:13 ¶ For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
These scriptures (and many others) explain the relationship of the old and the new law. We have liberty.. but only as we follow the inward law, as written by the Spirit. If we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. The Old Testament law was weak in this.. you could follow all the laws to the letter, and still be "lustful" (pride, etc) in spirit, as the Pharisees were.
Really so when Jesus said, If you lust after a woman, you are committing adultery in your heart.

I can not believe I am defending the Law in a Christian room
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,472,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Yes, it is true that Enoch, Moses, Joshua, and many others were righteous, and following God's plan for their life.. what was required of them. But this righteousness had no saving power. If Jesus had not come, they would have been lost just like everyone else.
What evidence do you have of this? Enoch, Elijah and Moses walked with God. Enoch overcame the cause of death, and therefore did not need to die. He lived Christ. He is the 7th from Adam and in the church of the Firstborn.
THey lived it before Jesus came to earth, they lived it because they knew Christ.

Quote:
[/indent]The law could not satisfy God.. no one, no matter how righteous, could be saved by this. Altho this was all that God required of those in the Old Testament, yet they looked forward to a time when the Messiah would crush satan's head, and the law would be written in their hearts. The law pointed to this time.
The law was given because of disobedience, the promises were given to Moses, and then the Hebrews were found in sin, so the Law was then written as a punishment and a blessing, because they were permitted to live.

Quote:
It has been fulfilled.
Matt. 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Yes, HE fulfilled it, and therefore was able to go into Hades and shine the light on those that had died in their sins. He did not fulfill righteousness for us, He fulfilled it to show it could be done and that there is a process of growing if we follow Him.

Quote:
Quote:
Absolutely. But the law we follow is the law in our hearts, written by the Holy Spirit. He guides our actions, and we must follow. But this is not the old law of outward signs and symbols... it is an inward guide.
True, but the inward living will bring outward results, whereas the outward living does not necesarily bring inner results.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:34 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,570,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
CG81 until you can find scripture that tells us to put away the Law you really don't have a valid argument not to mention how can you please God without the Law and how can you love God without the Law? and by the way judging from your scriptures you need a book of hermeneutics.
I'd be interested in your interpretations of the scriptures I quoted from Romans, Galations, and also the Jeremiah-Hebrews scriptures.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,122,831 times
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Jesus was trying to make a point of what ALL the laws were about.

If you love your neighbor then you wont commit adultery with his wife or kill him, or steal from him...

He wasn't saying that the laws are now finished.

Also, the verse you put shows that the laws will be written in their hearts...it doesn't state that there are 'new laws'
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