U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-20-2008, 10:40 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,564,568 times
Reputation: 967

Advertisements

On this board we often see a legalistic, Old Testament mindset trying to undermine the liberty and freedom found in Christ.

For example, we search for scriptures that talk about rape, child sex abuse, homosexuality, murder, clothing of different fabrics, shellfish, etc, and try to put the Bible together in a big jigsaw puzzle of rules and regulations.. often finding that it would be impossible to truly live such a life of bondage to the law.

Which is why Jesus came. No one could be righteous enough to live up to the standard. Jesus took our place.

So what does this mean? The Old Testament laws have been fulfilled in Christ. The rules regarding adultery, murder, the Sabbath, what constitutes moral perversion, clam eating, etc.... have ALL been fulfilled. We no longer need to spend hours memorizing the law of God, for it is written in our hearts. The Holy Spirit is our guide. Because God has saved us, we love Him with all our heart, and our neighbor as ourself.

So does this mean we can do whatever we want, and say that “this is what the Holy Spirit is telling me?” No.

In many areas, the “new law” in our hearts causes us to be more free.. but at the same time, many times it goes deeper than the old law. For example, the Old Testament said “Thou shalt not kill”. Jesus said that now, under the new law in our hearts, we are sinning if we show anger with our brother. It’s a heart matter, not simply a matter of following the rules. Our flesh would rather have everything spelled out and follow a list of rules, because to truly keep the law of God in our hearts means a complete surrender, not only an outward form.

The unconverted world is still bound by the old law… which is why they are not free. They chafe under it, mock it… they hate the convicting power of the law in their lives. Much time is spent legalistically trying to justify sin, for old law convicts of sin, but is powerless to deliver. Deliverance is found only in Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-20-2008, 10:51 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,454,210 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
On this board we often see a legalistic, Old Testament mindset trying to undermine the liberty and freedom found in Christ.

For example, we search for scriptures that talk about rape, child sex abuse, homosexuality, murder, clothing of different fabrics, shellfish, etc, and try to put the Bible together in a big jigsaw puzzle of rules and regulations.. often finding that it would be impossible to truly live such a life of bondage to the law.
Freedom from the Ten commandments? I beg to differ. The Law is a school master, it is a mirror of righteousness, the law tells us we can't hold such a standard by ourselves which is why the Law reminds us of the cross because Jesus sacrifice would make no sense without the Law.

(1 Corinthians 1:18)

"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing
, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Which is why Jesus came. No one could be righteous enough to live up to the standard. Jesus took our place.
"

(Luke 18:18-23)

[18] A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
[19] "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good -- except God alone. [20] You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother........'"


Last edited by Fundamentalist; 10-20-2008 at 11:00 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,457,426 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post

Which is why Jesus came. No one could be righteous enough to live up to the standard. Jesus took our place.
Its not that anyone could not be righteous, there are plenty of righteous examples in the scriptures...

The legalism came about because of hard hearts, living the outward rules while being barren of love, and the other fruit of the spirit that Jesus came to show was possible to live.

The law will not be done away, it will be fulfilled... in each person that lives according to the promises. The higher way.

To say that we can just say Jesus, Jesus and go on living as the hypocrites is not the message of Jesus... HE taught to be Perfect, to Love with All our being. etc....

If you say you love Him and keep not His commandments, then we are liars and truth is not in us.

godspeed,

freedom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2008, 10:56 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,564,568 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Freedom from the Ten commandments? I beg to differ. The Law is a school master, it is a mirror of righteousness, the law reminds us that we can't hold such a standard by ourselves which is why the Law reminds us of the cross because the Jesus sacrifice would make no sense without the Law.

[18] A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
[19] "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good -- except God alone. [20] You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"
[21] "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
[22] When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
[23] When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.
The commandments have been fulfilled in Christ.. but this does not mean that we are not sinning if we murder, commit adultery, steal, or covet. Jesus was showing the young ruler that simply keeping the commandments was not enough... God wants our whole heart, which the young ruler was unwilling to give.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2008, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,101,195 times
Reputation: 1008
please show us in the bible where it says the 'laws have been fulfilled'?

Is this why Paul went and circumcised Timothy who was a half jew?

The bible clearly says in Acts that the Gentiles were to follow the 4 rules that was given...but who says that also applies to Jews?

It's also funny how Pastors/Preachers like to 'pick/choose' what they want from the OT.

Like tithing...where is it commanded in the NT?
Drinking liquor/wine. where is it commanded in the NT?

Tithing is WRONG as the pastors/preach it. You're not supposed to use it to pay the electric, pastor's salary, etc. It clearly states what you're supposed to do with it in Deuteronomy. Most pastors dont want to teach from there but would rather teach it from Malachi.

Drinking wine. Not in the NT but pastors says it's wrong to drink. It's actually commanded in the OT to drink wine. Most people are afraid that they will get drunk if they drink 1 glass of wine.

This is the issue with what you wrote.
People will say God convicted me about this/that, and now everyone must follow it. I have heard pastors say that God convicted them of drinking...they weren't getting drunk but God still convicted them of drinking. THAT'S WRONG in so many ways.

To say we should now overlook the bible with what we are now 'convicted with' leaves the door open to sin.

The bible IS the foundation, and conviction is something 'more' but we should always compare it with the bible.

Also, I dont recall the bible saying that we will have 'new' laws written in our hearts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
On this board we often see a legalistic, Old Testament mindset trying to undermine the liberty and freedom found in Christ.

For example, we search for scriptures that talk about rape, child sex abuse, homosexuality, murder, clothing of different fabrics, shellfish, etc, and try to put the Bible together in a big jigsaw puzzle of rules and regulations.. often finding that it would be impossible to truly live such a life of bondage to the law.

Which is why Jesus came. No one could be righteous enough to live up to the standard. Jesus took our place.

So what does this mean? The Old Testament laws have been fulfilled in Christ. The rules regarding adultery, murder, the Sabbath, what constitutes moral perversion, clam eating, etc.... have ALL been fulfilled. We no longer need to spend hours memorizing the law of God, for it is written in our hearts. The Holy Spirit is our guide. Because God has saved us, we love Him with all our heart, and our neighbor as ourself.

So does this mean we can do whatever we want, and say that “this is what the Holy Spirit is telling me?” No.

In many areas, the “new law” in our hearts causes us to be more free.. but at the same time, many times it goes deeper than the old law. For example, the Old Testament said “Thou shalt not kill”. Jesus said that now, under the new law in our hearts, we are sinning if we show anger with our brother. It’s a heart matter, not simply a matter of following the rules. Our flesh would rather have everything spelled out and follow a list of rules, because to truly keep the law of God in our hearts means a complete surrender, not only an outward form.

The unconverted world is still bound by the old law… which is why they are not free. They chafe under it, mock it… they hate the convicting power of the law in their lives. Much time is spent legalistically trying to justify sin, for old law convicts of sin, but is powerless to deliver. Deliverance is found only in Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2008, 11:06 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,454,210 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
The commandments have been fulfilled in Christ.. but this does not mean that we are not sinning if we murder, commit adultery, steal, or covet. Jesus was showing the young ruler that simply keeping the commandments was not enough... God wants our whole heart, which the young ruler was unwilling to give.
(John 15 9:!2)

9"Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
10"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
11"These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2008, 11:09 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,564,568 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Its not that anyone could not be righteous, there are plenty of righteous examples in the scriptures...

The legalism came about because of hard hearts, living the outward rules while being barren of love, and the other fruit of the spirit that Jesus came to show was possible to live.
Yes, it is true that Enoch, Moses, Joshua, and many others were righteous, and following God's plan for their life.. what was required of them. But this righteousness had no saving power. If Jesus had not come, they would have been lost just like everyone else.
Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The law could not satisfy God.. no one, no matter how righteous, could be saved by this. Altho this was all that God required of those in the Old Testament, yet they looked forward to a time when the Messiah would crush satan's head, and the law would be written in their hearts. The law pointed to this time.

Quote:
The law will not be done away, it will be fulfilled... in each person that lives according to the promises. The higher way.
It has been fulfilled.
Matt. 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Quote:
To say that we can just say Jesus, Jesus and go on living as the hypocrites is not the message of Jesus... HE taught to be Perfect, to Love with All our being. etc....

If you say you love Him and keep not His commandments, then we are liars and truth is not in us.
Absolutely. But the law we follow is the law in our hearts, written by the Holy Spirit. He guides our actions, and we must follow. But this is not the old law of outward signs and symbols... it is an inward guide.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2008, 11:11 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,422 posts, read 29,551,815 times
Reputation: 29927
Matthew 5:17 "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No I came to fulfill them".

Religious leaders had turned the laws into a confusing mass of rules, when Jesus talked about a new way to understand God's law, He was actually trying to bring people back to it's original purpose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2008, 11:13 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,564,568 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
(John 15 9:!2)

9"Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
10"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
11"These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
What were Jesus' commandments?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2008, 11:17 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,454,210 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
What were Jesus' commandments?
(JOHN 15:12)
12 "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. JOHN 13:34
34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

1 JOHN 3:23
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

Pretty much summarizes the Commandments of the New Testament, just like if you break one commandment you've broken them all.

You can't love nor please Jesus if you don't live by His standards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top