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Old 10-21-2008, 06:26 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,243,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sun queen View Post
I don't know about anyone else, but I need Jesus to do the heavy lifting because without HIM I can do nothing and there is nothing worth doing. In fact my troubles really begin when I try to take matters into my own hands. Jesus said "come onto me all ye that are heavy laden for my burden is easy and my yoke is light." The implication here is that Jesus wants to do the "heavy lifting". We can seek to be righteous, but our righteousness is nothing. We need HIS righteousness because only HE has paid the price...
You got it

That's it.

My question and challenge still stands.....there is absolutely scripture that backs up what you are saying sun queen and makes the implications in the OP of this thread an outright misunderstanding and misrepresentation.

Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe!

Great post!
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,450,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
You got it

That's it.

My question and challenge still stands.....there is absolutely scripture that backs up what you are saying sun queen and makes the implications in the OP of this thread an outright misunderstanding and misrepresentation.

Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe!

Great post!
So why are we called to buy the gold that is tried in the fire, that we may be rich, and white raiment that we might be clothed?

What scriptures are you using that say we need do nothing, and Jesus did it all?

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:05 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,371,299 times
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Romans 12:2
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect

In fact if you read Romans 12, you will see that there is much to do. Look up that word "Transformed". It is the same word used to describe Jesus in His transfiguration in Matt 17:2 and Mark 9:2.

For us, this same word is used in 2Cor 3:18

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.


I see this as a Born From Above word, and the Birth is taken from this word: morphoō=to FORM

Ga; 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be
FORMED in you, I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Kinda think of the catapiller turning into the beautiful butterfly. Though the same creature, they are both completely different, in the lives they lead.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:12 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,243,602 times
Reputation: 3440
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
So why are we called to buy the gold that is tried in the fire, that we may be rich, and white raiment that we might be clothed?

What scriptures are you using that say we need do nothing, and Jesus did it all?

godspeed,

freedom
First, I believe we should all be obedient to Christ and His teachings. We are commanded to do so.

That said, He is all we are.

Some questions:

1-Are you willing to consider the truth's of God's word and willing to consider what the bible says regardless of what you currently believe?

2-Will you honestly look at the scripture I share and tell us what you think the Holy Spirit is telling you about those verses?

3-Do you believe the Bible and will you take its words regarding Christ and His sacrifice and who He is to the believer at face value?

4-Can we still be friends even if neither of us convinces the other of anything?
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:18 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,548,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
So why are we called to buy the gold that is tried in the fire, that we may be rich, and white raiment that we might be clothed?

What scriptures are you using that say we need do nothing, and Jesus did it all?

godspeed,

freedom
It's my understanding that's best described this way: We are to die.

Just as Jesus submitted to Calvary, we are to submit to His dealing with the flesh - not reacting when in the fire at home/work etc. Not defending yourself when accused (as Jesus didn't). Not wanting your way (love doesn't boast), etc.

Basically, when you feel your flesh rising up to do what you know the Spirit of the Lord wouldn't do, you can say, "A dead man wouldn't _____", or "A dead man can't _____".

We know that the gold has to "just sit there" and be purified by the fire, or the clay has to "just sit there" while it's molded by its Maker; that's not to say it's easy - but that it requires a tremendous amount of trust in the One that's working on you.
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,450,616 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
First, I believe we should all be obedient to Christ and His teachings. We are commanded to do so.
Great! we agree....

Quote:
That said, He is all we are.
I don't know what to do with statements like this though, He is not my sin, nor my weakness. He is all that is true in me, not the dross that is to be cast out.

Quote:
Some questions:

1-Are you willing to consider the truth's of God's word and willing to consider what the bible says regardless of what you currently believe?
What i believe is from the scriptures....primarily KJV/Tynsdale translations.

Quote:
2-Will you honestly look at the scripture I share and tell us what you think the Holy Spirit is telling you about those verses?
Yes

Quote:
3-Do you believe the Bible and will you take its words regarding Christ and His sacrifice and who He is to the believer at face value?
Interpretation is in the eye of the beholder, so i don't guarantee consensus on the letters of Paul, and the position that has been taught in the bible colleges. But i will do my best to discuss them in a honest forthright manner.

Quote:
4-Can we still be friends even if neither of us convinces the other of anything?
Yes

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,450,616 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
It's my understanding that's best described this way: We are to die.

Just as Jesus submitted to Calvary, we are to submit to His dealing with the flesh - not reacting when in the fire at home/work etc. Not defending yourself when accused (as Jesus didn't). Not wanting your way (love doesn't boast), etc.

Basically, when you feel your flesh rising up to do what you know the Spirit of the Lord wouldn't do, you can say, "A dead man wouldn't _____", or "A dead man can't _____".

We know that the gold has to "just sit there" and be purified by the fire, or the clay has to "just sit there" while it's molded by its Maker; that's not to say it's easy - but that it requires a tremendous amount of trust in the One that's working on you.

Die to self...yes...

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:10 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,243,602 times
Reputation: 3440
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Great! we agree....



I don't know what to do with statements like this though, He is not my sin, nor my weakness. He is all that is true in me, not the dross that is to be cast out.



What i believe is from the scriptures....primarily KJV/Tynsdale translations.



Yes



Interpretation is in the eye of the beholder, so i don't guarantee consensus on the letters of Paul, and the position that has been taught in the bible colleges. But i will do my best to discuss them in a honest forthright manner.



Yes

godspeed,

freedom
GREAT!

OK, I'm not gonna try and 'sell' you anything or really even try and convince you of anything. I'm just going to lay God's Word out there and ask you some questions.

I'm simply going to show you what I read one night in study and you can do with it whatever you feel God would have you do.

Remember to keep your OP in mind as I share these scriptures.

In the following passage, who is this referring to and what is the significance of the passage telling us His name and what does His name mean?

Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Jer 23:1-6 (emphasis added to 5 and 6)
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,450,616 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
GREAT!

OK, I'm not gonna try and 'sell' you anything or really even try and convince you of anything. I'm just going to lay God's Word out there and ask you some questions.

I'm simply going to show you what I read one night in study and you can do with it whatever you feel God would have you do.

Remember to keep your OP in mind as I share these scriptures.

In the following passage, who is this referring to and what is the significance of the passage telling us His name and what does His name mean?

Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Jer 23:1-6 (emphasis added to 5 and 6)

I think i see what you are saying...

And your post is timely... but it is not I who scatter the sheep...

The churches have already been doing that.. the denomination separations, the memberships being forsaken.

Hey if someone sits in church and hears that Jesus did it all and you need do nothing after you say the sinners prayer, and that Jesus' righteousness covers your sins regardless if you repent (turn from sin) then why wouldn't the bored, and apathetic finally disperse.

Church attendance is decreasing and scattering every week, the message of the pulpit is no longer able to sustain life, the crib is too small, the covering to narrow, and the milk has no nutrients... let alone a good slab of meat ever coming out of the kitchen.

So if in your words, you could tell me how i'm scattering, please let me know. I surely don't want to be a scatterer...

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:56 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,243,602 times
Reputation: 3440
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
I think i see what you are saying...

And your post is timely... but it is not I who scatter the sheep...

The churches have already been doing that.. the denomination separations, the memberships being forsaken.

Hey if someone sits in church and hears that Jesus did it all and you need do nothing after you say the sinners prayer, and that Jesus' righteousness covers your sins regardless if you repent (turn from sin) then why wouldn't the bored, and apathetic finally disperse.

Church attendance is decreasing and scattering every week, the message of the pulpit is no longer able to sustain life, the crib is too small, the covering to narrow, and the milk has no nutrients... let alone a good slab of meat ever coming out of the kitchen.

So if in your words, you could tell me how i'm scattering, please let me know. I surely don't want to be a scatterer...

godspeed,

freedom
OK, you totally missed my point. I'm not calling you a scatterer....let's just look at verses 5 and 6 then, the ones I bolded.

Who is that and what does it mean?

Also, simple question, who redeems us?
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