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Old 10-28-2008, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,457,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
Wise quote

I have taken this in prayer for quite some time - this has been a long struggle for me because I know homosexual friends.

That it does not seem quite right to me is because I have been told that it is not quite right, but I just don't feel that way. I don't feel strange or uncomfortable around them.

I do not understand it but I know and love [agape] gay persons and do not feel their relationship an abomination. I know those who cursed themselves to the point of near suicide for being "different" but they are who they are so they either had to accept it or force themselves into heterosexual relationships that eventually broke down.

In any way, hate and loathing and self-rightousness is not the answer.

I am not convinced the scriptures are accusing gay partners in a loving relationship. There are just too many questions about interpretation for me to be so smug [either way]

I have too many other issues about myself to "get right" than worry about the salvation of another. I can witness to them, but it is the Holy Spirit who enters a perosn's heart and whether or not he enters has nothing to do with the sexual orientation. The Holy Spirit probably has an easier time of it getting in an "open door" than a closed one and I think telling someone they are an abomination before God is a sure way to close the door.

When they have accepted Christ,they will have to examine their own life and come to their own understanding with God.
So you are neither hot nor cold? You are somewhere in between? Luke warm perhaps?
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:21 PM
 
4,541 posts, read 12,780,651 times
Reputation: 2278
I know what the Word says about this subject. The Scripture references have been brought up again in this thread.

What I want to know is why people stop reading at the end of Romans chapter 1 and don't continue reading through to Romans chapter 2?

There's a chapter break but there's no question that the message is a continuation from the 1st chapter....

Last edited by World Citizen; 10-28-2008 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:36 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,425,822 times
Reputation: 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
So you are neither hot nor cold? You are somewhere in between? Luke warm perhaps?
I don't think it is my position to determine whether gays are "right with God" or not. I presented arguments as counter point because the scriptures as not as black and white to me as it seems to others, not when we consider historical context, not when I really don't know what is a "born eunuch", etc.

I really don't have strong opinions on the matter. I think it is their personal struggle. All I can do is love them - how will telling them they are an abomination welcome them to God's house so they can have this dialogue with God? .
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:52 PM
 
116 posts, read 278,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
I know what the Word says about this subject. And, the Scripture references have been brought up again in this thread.

What I want to know is why people stop reading at the end of Romans chapter 1 and don't continue reading through to Romans chapter 2?

There's a chapter break but there's no question that the message is a continuation from the 1st chapter....
I assume you mean Romans 2:1, which reads:

"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

I understand you as implying that we have no right to judge homosexuals. I also understand you as implying that we're judging with hatred and malice. That couldn't be further from the truth. The OP was a question stated as such: "Does the bible have anything explicit or implicit about lesbians being bad besides for the well established sin of pre-marital sex?" We have answered with quotes from the Bible affirming that from a Biblical perspective, homosexuality is sinful and detestable by God (God's words, not mine). Never once have I said, nor will I ever say, that I hate gay people, that God will strike them dead and send them to hell. Nor will I ever imply or blatantly say, behind their backs or to their face, that God hates them or that they are evil people for doing what they do. As stated in Romans 3:22-24:

"We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are. For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of Godís glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins."

I am just as much a sinner as anyone else, and I cannot judge others' sins because that job lies with my Savior. HOWEVER, that does not discount that the Bible clearly states, and that I believe to be true (as I take the ENTIRE Bible at its word), that homosexuality is, indeed, a sin. The sinner is still a soul that has been created by my Lord; and I will love, and pray for the salvation of, that person with a passionate heart that yearns for their return to their Creator, such as His heart yearns for all his children to come to Him.

You are right...we have no right, and are commanded not to, judge another. But we have the responsibility to acknowledge what God has said, and what the Bible clearly states to be true.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:01 PM
 
4,541 posts, read 12,780,651 times
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As I said in my original statement, I KNOW what the Bible says about the subject.

I really don't need a sermon... I really do know what the Word says.

Likewise, I bet you know the rest of Romans chapter 2... into 3... and how it deals with the issue of personal sin.

I just wonder if the OP already knew the answer to his question?
In earlier threads he'd already discussed sodomy and all other areas of homosexuality.

just a thought...

Last edited by World Citizen; 10-28-2008 at 09:16 PM..
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,457,014 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
I don't think it is my position to determine whether gays are "right with God" or not. I presented arguments as counter point because the scriptures as not as black and white to me as it seems to others, not when we consider historical context, not when I really don't know what is a "born eunuch", etc.

I really don't have strong opinions on the matter. I think it is their personal struggle. All I can do is love them - how will telling them they are an abomination welcome them to God's house so they can have this dialogue with God? .
Very simply: It's sin and it's an abomination to My Father in Heaven.
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