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Old 10-23-2008, 05:26 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,400,342 times
Reputation: 2682

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Any one else read this book? [Rich Christians in an age of Hunger]
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=945305

Or joined this group? [Bread for the World]
Bread for the World - World hunger site - action, education, research, statistics

Or this group [Oxfam]
Oxfam International
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Old 10-23-2008, 06:28 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,237 posts, read 8,245,696 times
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I first heard about it back in college, but being a poor student, I never got around to buying it. It's still on my list though.
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:11 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,243,602 times
Reputation: 3440
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post

Any one else read this book? [Rich Christians in an age of Hunger]
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=945305

Or joined this group? [Bread for the World]
Bread for the World - World hunger site - action, education, research, statistics

Or this group [Oxfam]
Oxfam International
Interesting.

Would you be interested in leading a discussion thread of folks interested in reading?

I've never read it but it might be a good group discussion.

You game?
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Old 10-23-2008, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 844,157 times
Reputation: 204
Have you ever thought that the pictures of starving children on your T.V., courtesy of very lucrative charitable non-profits, are stark evidence of the failed economic and anti-Christian policies of the nations in which those poor people live?

What you should read, instead of Rich Christians in an Age of World Hunger, is a Biblical response to Ronald J. Sider: Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt Manipulators by David Chilton (Institute for Christian Economics: 1981; P.O.Box 8000, Tyler, Texas 75711)

For a conclusive demonstration that the very policies which Ron Sider advocates have actually increased poverty and suffering in America read: Losing Ground: American Social Policy, 1950-1980 by Charles Murray (Basic Books, 1984).

Sider's book is a Marxist wolf in sheep's clothing. His solution for the 3rd world is to talk the rich into giving it away, but if that fails (!) Government can seize all the land and redistribute it. What he says (2nd edition) he wants is, "regular, fundamental redistribution of the means for producing wealth" (p.221). What ever happened to, "Thou shalt not steal?"

He makes outrageous lies, like, concerning God's will for the economic sphere, "the Bible does not directly answer these questions. We do not find a comprehensive blueprint for a new economic order in Scripture." (p.205 [p.194]) These kinds of things are said by promoters of statism who really want to avoid a discussion of the explicit teaching of the Bible. (I've somewhere read that as many as one out of five verses in the Bible refer to money.)

Be forewarned, typical of many of his stripe, he likes to ask questions and quote others whose views are similar to his own while maintaining his own ambiguity. This makes it difficult to quote him directly when reviewing the actual impact of his book. An example is in his chapter on "God and the Poor." He asks in big bold letters, IS GOD A MARXIST? followed by several pages about how "the God of the Bible wreaks horrendous havoc on the rich." (page 77 1st ed.) Chilton remarks, "It would be interesting to see what the professor would say if someone used the same tactic on him -- for instance, if one were to ask, in all apparent innocence, IS RONALD J. SIDER A SEX PERVERT? -- followed up with five or six pages of out-of-context quotations from Sider on his love for animals.

P.S. With the candidates talking about socialism it might be good to quote the definition by a genuine authority from his classic study. Socialism is "that organization of society in which the means of production are controlled, and the decisions on how and what to produce and on who is to get what, are made by public authority instead of by privately-owned and privately-managed firms." Joseph Schumpeter, Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy (New York: Harper and Row, 3rd ed. [1950] 1975) p.415. "'Thou shalt not covet' means that it is sinful even to contemplate the seizure of another man's goods -- which is something which Socialists, whether Christian or otherwise, have never managed to explain away." John Chamberlain, The Roots of Capitalism (Princeton: D. Van Nostrand Company, Inc., 1959; revised, 1965), p.46

Last edited by JamesMRohde; 10-23-2008 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,565,258 times
Reputation: 843
We're not talking about the government taking over here - sheeesh!

We're talking about basic principles of sharing with those less fortunate. We're talking about fighting against a basic human (but inhumane) instinct to care only about ourselves.

It's EASY to tell who really needs help and who needs a swift kick in the rear.

Scripture is clear from cover to cover how to deal with the poor, the orphaned ect. but modern conservatives love to tout their greedy capitalism as the end all. I think all Americans should be forced to live in a 3rd world country for about ten years and see if the tune changes a bit.

This is a bad time to be touting the glories of an unregulated free market. Just as communism won't work because of corruption - so an unregulated free market won't work because of corruption.

I haven't read the book but when a book gets such strong criticism from social conservatives I tend to automatically assume it must be pretty good.

Nancy, can you tell us more about the main thrust of the book? The reviews I've read suggest it's not touting government redistribution of wealth but rather simple liberal giving by individuals. Is that the case?
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,565,258 times
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Also to the "They're poor because their non-Christians" argument - puhleeeeeze! One would be hard pressed to find more sin than exists here in the states whatever our official "religion" might be.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:13 AM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,400,342 times
Reputation: 2682
Alpha, I am going to respectfully decline your gracious offer - I have decided that this forum is too emotionally draining for me right now and don't see any kind of openess to objective discussion. So heap the coals on my head. Were I younger and did not have to work a full time job and care for a mother who has had a stroke and a father in stage IV cancer, I might decide to focus my energy on it - better I take that time to do something constructive. Limiting myself to checking the forum in the morning will be healther for me right now.

firstborn888, I read this book in 1978 along with a bunch of others, all of which I need to revisit - Socialism - there probably are elements of socialism in his book and yes, I realize there are problems with the welfare state and "giveaway" programs. I certainly need to get a newer copy. I also know a very Christian community that is basically socialist [not Marxist, not communist - this is very much a worshiping community] but that is a small community and being in that community and living that lifestyle is voluntary. Is not the tension we live in to work towards the right balance? Of course I am hardpressed to know what to call what is going on in today's world with our government bailouts of the greedy and wealthy. I am not sure who, democrat or republican, decided they can seize our land to give it to Walmart.
I think our economic system is geared towards the rich accumulating wealth by the exploitation of the middle and lower class and eventually, if not corrected, it will correct itself. I think we need point/counterpoint to have a healthy discussion. The only book that gets it everything "correct" is the Bible.

JamesMRhode-Your characterization of non-profits helping the poor is just that. There may be some out there but any time money is involved, greed and corruption find their way in, but there are plenty of others that work on a shoestring and are good stewards of their money. I am employed by a non-profit and know that we are good stewards of our money. I am planning on objectively reading the references you gave alongside of Ron Sider's book and the Bible.
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Old 10-25-2008, 10:29 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,357,638 times
Reputation: 1044
Thumbs up Man you're good

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Interesting.

Would you be interested in leading a discussion thread of folks interested in reading?

I've never read it but it might be a good group discussion.

You game?

Thanks Alpha;
Rep point here
God Bless You
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:07 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,812,679 times
Reputation: 1323
Thank you for the links, Grannynancy. God bless.
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,461 posts, read 3,212,863 times
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I am very careful where I give my money. I feel responsible not to have God's money wasted. I know it is hard to check out the groups sometimes. We give to several groups and of course to our church. We went on a mission's trip to Peru, twice, and worked with a dental team on children's teeth. We worked through a couple from VA who have been there about ten years. We now give to them since they have along with several other areas support 40 children in a small village. We have seen the center and they provide breakfast, family counseling, help with homework, clothes and a Christmas present. So I feel comfortable that I know right where the money goes and they are not taking money out for administration.
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