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Old 10-31-2008, 10:57 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,246,515 times
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For whatever role and for whatever words I may have spoken in this thread that were perceived as mean, evil, or hateful, I'd like to apologize. I certainly am ashamed that I have participated in a thread with so many negative connotations and so many negative reactions.

My only point in all of this was to say that we should be cautious in judging and, in this case, condemning professing Christians for heresy unless we are 100% sure.

Case in point is the mention of Chuck Smith.

I have the utmost respect for Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel. It's my understanding the man and the church have had huge positive impacts on many Christians around the globe. I think he is a man of God and I think I'll get to meet him in glory. I have read several books by/about him, one given to me by a ministry I strongly support, Gospel For Asia.

That being said, I guarantee you a google of his name with the word false after it will yield some website somewhere with negative things to say about him or the church and they will probably base it on pulling thoughts and words out of context and trying to hold them up against scripture with another thought in mind altogether.

It's sad to me that Christians are destroying our faith and its attraction to the lost and dying by imploding on itself and cannibalizing our brothers and sisters.

I ask forgiveness from those I've insulted and/or turned off and ask you to not look to me as an example of what Christ looks like.

Just look to Him.

God bless.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:18 AM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,125,763 times
Reputation: 6744
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
I just have one question.

Have you ever or do you now teach or are you in any way in leadership in your church?
I taught children's church. Don't worry we didn't talk about this subject or any like it.

Quote:
Actually, I just re-read your post and I've got more to say.
I'll be really honest. I've not read all of the criticisms of Rick Warren and his church.
That is not my ministry.

I don't even want to have this discussion.

Issue closed for me.
Sorry if you were offend, but I do believe Mega Churches and their leaders have treated God's word more as a "Marketing Technique", then actually bringing people to Christ.
If it weren't, for the coffee, donuts, music and the lights, I wonder how many would show for the Word of God.

If Christian's don't stand up and ask for the Word of God to just stay pure, then who will. No need to reply.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:37 AM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,125,763 times
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Thanks Thirsty, I have sen these. Chuck Smith is more against the Emerging of Churches, which is what Mega Churches want to do.

You'll have to research it out if you want to understand whats going on.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:57 AM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,060,710 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
Thanks Thirsty, I have sen these. Chuck Smith is more against the Emerging of Churches, which is what Mega Churches want to do.

You'll have to research it out if you want to understand whats going on.
Hey I'm staying out of it! You had just posted some links from one side.. and I just posted some from the other side.

I couldn't pick any of these guys out of a lineup.

No dog.. no hunt.

My thesis is as follows:

1. If you think the book would help you.. read it
2. If you think the book will send you to hell.. don't read it

Done and done. Arguement over.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:10 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,125,763 times
Reputation: 6744
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June has never read the book(s) in question. June is even less inclined to read them now.[

This is one scarey thread. June finds 3 Shepard's querie, above, to be noteworthy...June isn't exactly what one would dare to think of as a "new believer," (not by any stretch of the imagination!) () however, even just "June being June" has to wonder what anyone who is interested in just understanding Christianity just an ittsy, bitsy, teeny, weeny bit more would make of all the "confusion" around what is and is not advisable to read! (As such, June has to admit that any interest she had in reading the "Christian book" that she bought a while ago out of interest has now waned...Subsided.) --Because let's face it, guys, June, (in being June) would more than likely have NOT pick the "correct book."

--Because really, how could she possibly?


(Points made herein this thread; points taken by June. June would sooner take a hammer to her own just June head right now, or gorge out her eyes than even attempt to wonder, (let alone ask!) whether the book she bought would be the "right one" the "appropriate one" that conveys the "accurate" message of the gospel...
June, this, like Alpha said, went to far. I have a real strong opinion about Mega Churches and the Marketing that they are doing to lead people to God. I probably should have just stayed out of it.

I'm sorry you feel it has to do with "WRATH". God is love, matter of fact when Jesus was asked what was the most important command, Jesus said it was "Love".

No, we were not showing love, but that is human and we have all emotions besides just "LOVE", that even means Christians. I do think that people want to just be in God's Love and this is not always going to be. God is a God of discipline and it's important to stay with the scriptures and not change them or the words.

There are many people and books out there who water down the Word of God. I would suggest that you read a Bible. I started with Good News for Modern Man, it's simple reading and I used the King James for reference, and went from there.

I remember my mother-n-law gave me some books, I carried around for 4 years, before I read them by Chuck Smith, not one was a self help book they were just about leading one to God and God's discipline along the way.

Try reading your book and PLEASE don't let what Christians say and do persuade you from God or God's Word. Christians are just as human as you and make many mistakes. There are way to many denominations and this is why you see conflict.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:19 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,125,763 times
Reputation: 6744
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Hey I'm staying out of it! You had just posted some links from one side.. and I just posted some from the other side.

I couldn't pick any of these guys out of a lineup.

No dog.. no hunt.

My thesis is as follows:

1. If you think the book would help you.. read it
2. If you think the book will send you to hell.. don't read it

Done and done. Arguement over.
I don't blame you!! It's really not going any where and it became more of my personal issues with Mega Churches.
Just so you know, I never said you were going to Hell for reading, I feel it's diluted!! Done
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:14 PM
 
4,541 posts, read 12,763,505 times
Reputation: 2277
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
I taught children's church. Don't worry we didn't talk about this subject or any like it.

Sorry if you were offend, but I do believe Mega Churches and their leaders have treated God's word more as a "Marketing Technique", then actually bringing people to Christ.
If it weren't, for the coffee, donuts, music and the lights, I wonder how many would show for the Word of God.

If Christian's don't stand up and ask for the Word of God to just stay pure, then who will. No need to reply.
3 Shepherds,

I have been in ministry in a church. I've set in leadership meetings. I know how hard it is and what they're up against. Prior to my church experience, I didn't see the reason for curricullum. I now understand.

I'm sure you realize that there are no perfect men on earth... and nobody has perfect understanding...
And, then you have those who want to analyze and look for error. I've got a real problem with that.

I agree. God doesn't use "marketing" to attract people. I've had discussions with some who felt differently.

but,... Maybe if the people who feel called to analyze and criticize other pastors and other ministries would keep their focus on teaching about Jesus Christ
and building up the body of Christ we all would be in a better place. This discussion is the fruit of their labor.

You see. I understand that the Lord will judge all of us for our actions. Those who are in ministry will be judged for their ministry, as well.

Every one of us will give an account to God.

We've had this discussion many times on City Data. I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over. It doesn't get through.

When the disciples pointed out another "ministry" to Jesus that 'did not believe like them', what did Jesus tell them to do about it???

He said, to leave them alone.

" And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

I wanted to answer your post. I really don't want to discuss it.

I'm sorry that your pastor feels that this is such an important subject.

God bless!

Last edited by World Citizen; 10-31-2008 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:31 PM
 
Location: UK.
348 posts, read 450,839 times
Reputation: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post

It's sad to me that Christians are destroying our faith and its attraction to the lost and dying by imploding on itself and cannibalizing our brothers and sisters.

I ask forgiveness from those I've insulted and/or turned off and ask you to not look to me as an example of what Christ looks like.

Just look to Him.

God bless.
Don't worry yourself, Alpha, I have met some very gracious Christians in my life whom I admire greatly for their humility and kindness, and who I look to as an example of what Christ looks like.

None of us is infallible, and the fact that you apologise so humbly means that any insult you have caused will be readily forgiven, at least by your good Christian brethren.

As you said somewhere else, Balance is the ideal we should all be looking for, and we all try, though we often fail.

Brian
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:26 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,446,446 times
Reputation: 3392
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post

I'm sorry you feel it has to do with "WRATH". God is love, matter of fact when Jesus was asked what was the most important command, Jesus said it was "Love".
^ June knows that. That's why June ended her post with the quote from Corinthians 13.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post


No, we were not showing love, but that is human and we have all emotions besides just "LOVE"
Given the nature of what June does Mon-Friday, I'd say that's something June does know a little something about!



Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post

I would suggest that you read a Bible.
June has.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post

Christians are just as human as you

That's what June's countin' on!


And, lastly, (with )



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post


ask you to not look to me as an example of what Christ looks like.


You silly, silly goose!

Wanna come with June on a wild goose chase?


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Old 10-31-2008, 05:45 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,125,763 times
Reputation: 6744
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
^ June knows that. That's why June ended her post with the quote from Corinthians 13.



Given the nature of what June does Mon-Friday, I'd say that's something June does know a little something about!





June has.




That's what June's countin' on!


And, lastly, (with )






You silly, silly goose!

Wanna come with June on a wild goose chase?


Then, your not as LOST as you think you might be!!! We are all here to learn, even if we don't always agree.
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