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Old 10-27-2008, 01:31 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746

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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftwoodpoint View Post
To dear my sweet Fundamentalist....maybe you don't mean to attack but your response to what I wrote certainly comes off that way. I certainly accept that God has perfect standards and the wrath of God will be on those who don't accept Christ as the payment for their sins.
But you wrote that response as if I was not a believer...and that is a bit offensive.
I turned my life over to Christ in the fall of '71. I like most Christians live their life the best I can. I belong to a church which helps our community, is a witness for Christ in our words and actions. I have a B&B that we give 100% to Christian groups. I've taken several mission trips to Peru. Yet I know my good deeds are not what save me, it is my faith in Christ alone.
There is a side of God that contains wrath and justice but His Love, Mercy, Forgivenss and loving open arms is generally what draws people to Him. The fact that I can come to God and cry Abba Father is comforting to me in the depths of my soul............
I did not mean to be offensive. I never assume people who call themselves Christians are indeed what they profess to be. You said, a lot but it is what you didn't say. I expect any Christian to do the same to me and I wouldn't be offended in fact I would welcome it and rejoice that some one cares enough to make sure I truly understand.

I was merely asking. If the answers were, yes, then I say, amen
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,461 posts, read 3,215,495 times
Reputation: 821
I appreciate that, thank you~driftwoodpoint
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:40 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Good for you. Fact is.. you still haven't provided documentation that most churches use self-help books to preach to the congregation.

So again.. just opinion.. like I said the 4 previous posts.

I don't care what Joel Osteen believes. I don't care what Billy Graham believes. Neither of those two people are holding a ticket for me. Those books are meant to help people in their everyday lives and if they help people be good people.. then I don't know how you can say they are bad.

Its beyond me the length that fundamentalists will go to cut off their nose to spite their face.

I can see it now:

Person 1: "Wow that was a really great Osteen book. It gave me some great insight on how to live better for myself and my family"

Fundamentalist 1: "You're going to hell for reading it"
No one said that, but if it is a book on faith. IT SHOULD BE DOCTRINALLY SOUND!
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:44 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,064,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
No one said that, but if it is a book on faith. IT SHOULD BE DOCTRINALLY SOUND!
<-- I like that emoticon best. It appropriately shows the nose.. missing from the face.
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:48 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
<-- i like that emoticon best. It appropriately shows the nose.. Missing from the face.
ok
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,458,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
No one said that, but if it is a book on faith. IT SHOULD BE DOCTRINALLY SOUND!
What have you read in Rick Warren or Joel Osteen's books that are not doctrinally sound?

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:00 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
What have you read in Rick Warren or Joel Osteen's books that are not doctrinally sound?

godspeed,

freedom
God is love but God is also just. These men just preach about love. They don't show entire gospel. God is not some warm and fuzzy teddy bear and we are not lovable. God's love is "agape love" a self sacrificing love. It's all about Him, nothing for us. He saves us because He gets the glory, that is His nature. This was His preordained plan:
God creates man, man falls, God sends Son to die, God gets ALL the glory.

It's not what Rick Warren says. It's what he doesn't say and not including the entire gospel is plain irresponsible.
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,461 posts, read 3,215,495 times
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I agree with what you are saying fundamentalist.
Maybe it shouldn't but how we present the gospel seems to change a bit over the years. I think we have swayed from the Hell fire and brimstone to love. I agree that God is both. God hates sin and I certainly believe there is a Hell and Satan is alive and well on this earth. God's judgement is coming at some point and we as Christians need to take that seriously and witness to those God brings in our path.
It all centers around what Christ did on the cross. God needed a perfect sacrifice to pay for our sin. We all are terrible, soiled souls who cannot save themself. It is totally God's grace that saves us.
But with Rick Warren's book he has the right to present what he feels led to write in his book. It is not all inclusive, that's not the point of it.
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,458,433 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
God is love but God is also just. These men just preach about love. They don't show entire gospel. God is not some warm and fuzzy teddy bear and we are not lovable. God's love is "agape love" a self sacrificing love. It's all about Him, nothing for us. He saves us because He gets the glory, that is His nature. This was His preordained plan:
God creates man, man falls, God sends Son to die, God gets ALL the glory.

It's not what Rick Warren says. It's what he doesn't say and not including the entire gospel is plain irresponsible.
So Rick is bad because of what he doesn't say?

got it...

I think this is a good example of why we shouldn't judge falsely...


godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:18 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by driftwoodpoint View Post
I agree with what you are saying fundamentalist.
Maybe it shouldn't but how we present the gospel seems to change a bit over the years. I think we have swayed from the Hell fire and brimstone to love. I agree that God is both. God hates sin and I certainly believe there is a Hell and Satan is alive and well on this earth. God's judgement is coming at some point and we as Christians need to take that seriously and witness to those God brings in our path.
It all centers around what Christ did on the cross. God needed a perfect sacrifice to pay for our sin. We all are terrible, soiled souls who cannot save themself. It is totally God's grace that saves us.
But with Rick Warren's book he has the right to present what he feels led to write in his book. It is not all inclusive, that's not the point of it.
Things are so bad, they did a study. Did you know 50% of evangelicals don't even believe in Satan?

80% of children who grow up in the Lord then go to college and come back unbelievers because no one prepared them.

and it gets progressively worse. I grew up in a pentecostal church. We were the instigators, Christian rock and rap, not that there is anything wrong with it but the church has been trying to become "relevant" that you can't even tell the difference anymore.

Churches strive for numbers rather than substance. We are bribing people into the church, people who do not belong or are ready.
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