U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-28-2008, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 845,939 times
Reputation: 205

Advertisements

The quote function doesn't work for me. So . . .

yhwhshalomjr, you said:

"Would you mind giving the reference (quotes)for your post please"

My answer:

The quotes from the Bible are cited though many more Bible references could be added here and there. Beyond that I'm not sure what you mean. Some are only related references without the Scripture directly quoted? The writing itself is an excerpt from something else I wrote and published earlier on my sluggish blog at MyChurch: A Christian Social Network where I am reFORMer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-28-2008, 12:47 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,611,501 times
Reputation: 47459
to disappoint my enemies. then make some progress on joy
happiness and love (dont expect too much i have been fighting a lot for a long long time its progress not perfection)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,931 posts, read 9,631,927 times
Reputation: 5370
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Personally, it bugs the crap out of me when Christians get all zealous and try to convert everyone they see. Just leave people alone! If this God who can do absolutely anything wanted to save people, he would tell them himself. He wouldn't let them trust other people, since he knows people are fallible and 'get it wrong' more often than not. And he knows all, right? so of course he knows that depending on where you are born, you may become a very devout Muslim, or Jew! or.. an atheist! ooohhhh!! Heaven forbid, right? But nope, heaven does not forbid.

There are 6 billion people in this world, and only 2 billion are Christian. This all-loving god really thinks it's best to let the other 2/3 of the world suffer eternally in hell?
You have answered your own question. God does not want any to go to hell. Jesus is the only one that provided a way out of hell through the work of the cross. God in his wisdom has chosen that Christians bring forth other Christians through the message of this good news (the gospel), that Jesus Christ came to make a way where there was no way.

The two billion did not become Christian by genetics. They became Christian by believing, by faith which comes by hearing God's word. Someone preached that word to them. Jesus gave these final marching orders before his ascension to his followers:
Matthew 26:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
A Christian is a follower of Jesus. Followers obey direct orders. To tell us Christians not to preach the gospel and gain converts of those that do not believe is telling us to not be Christians. Or is that your point?

For a Christian to obey Christ is as logical as you get, Logic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 01:36 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,384,459 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
You have answered your own question. God does not want any to go to hell. Jesus is the only one that provided a way out of hell through the work of the cross. God in his wisdom has chosen that Christians bring forth other Christians through the message of this good news (the gospel), that Jesus Christ came to make a way where there was no way.

The two billion did not become Christian by genetics. They became Christian by believing, by faith which comes by hearing God's word. Someone preached that word to them. Jesus gave these final marching orders before his ascension to his followers:
Matthew 26:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
A Christian is a follower of Jesus. Followers obey direct orders. To tell us Christians not to preach the gospel and gain converts of those that do not believe is telling us to not be Christians. Or is that your point?

For a Christian to obey Christ is as logical as you get, Logic.
My point is that if God does not want anyone to go to hell, then why doesn't he appear to the 4 billion people himself and tell them what to do?

I did not say they became Christian by genetics, I said that where you are born geographically has a lot to do with what religion you are.

The overall point is: God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving; plus he has this rule where you have to believe in him to avoid eternal damnation. Also, he knows how people are fallible, and that it's easy to assume a person's word is their own, not God's. So, why does he let 4 billion people suffer eternal damnation, when all he has to do is appear to each one individually so that they actually know what they should do?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,931 posts, read 9,631,927 times
Reputation: 5370
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
My point is that if God does not want anyone to go to hell, then why doesn't he appear to the 4 billion people himself and tell them what to do?

I did not say they became Christian by genetics, I said that where you are born geographically has a lot to do with what religion you are.

The overall point is: God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving; plus he has this rule where you have to believe in him to avoid eternal damnation. Also, he knows how people are fallible, and that it's easy to assume a person's word is their own, not God's. So, why does he let 4 billion people suffer eternal damnation, when all he has to do is appear to each one individually so that they actually know what they should do?
I have heard and read reports from missionaries that can acclaim to this, they went into an area where no westerners had ever been, where no message of the Bible or the gospel of Jesus had ever spread and found believers. Did they know the name Jesus? No. Did they understand scripture? No. But when the gospel of Jesus was preached, they responded with a simlar response (many stories, various specifics that I would have to research, but a common amalgam would be this) "Yes, this God appeared to us. We know him. Now that you have come we know his name."

However, the verses I gave in my previous post show that God in his wisdom has chosen a plan that does not align itself with your reasoning. Christians are also called in scripture the "body of Christ." Christians are his feet, his hands, his voice. When one goes and tells another of the message of the cross, that the way to know God is through Jesus, then Jesus IS telling that person. It is Christ in us, the hope of glory that is preaching the message.

It seems easier if God would do as you say, just put a big jumbo tron in the skies and boom it out for all to hear. But he did not do it in this way. He left that to us, imperfect, yes; fallible, yes; ones that inevitably screw up the message big time. Still that is how he chose for his plan to unfold, how he has done it for 2000 years and how he does it today and until his return.

If we were limiting the Christian religion to geography, it would have to be limited to an area of just a few hundred square miles that is now Jewish in the midst of a sea of Muslims as Jesus did not travel beyond what is now the state of Israel, (with some possible excursion across the river into what is now Jordan, and his trip across the sea of Galilee into what is now Syria). Yet Christianity is the predominant religion in the western nations. The Apostle Paul started it with his missionary journies to Asia Minor, Greece and around the Mediterranean as far as Rome.

Missionaries have taken the gospel in the last century or so to areas that were not Christian. Many parts of Africa are largely Christian. Korea has one of the highest percentages of born again evangelical Christians in the world. The persecution of Communist China saw Christianity grow by the millions.

Will all believe? No, Jesus made it plain that the majority would not believe. But that is not to stop us obeying what he precisely commanded, that we take the gospel to every people, tribe and language.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 02:23 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,384,459 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
PARTIAL QUOTE:
It seems easier if God would do as you say, just put a big jumbo tron in the skies and boom it out for all to hear. But he did not do it in this way. He left that to us, imperfect, yes; fallible, yes; ones that inevitably screw up the message big time. Still that is how he chose for his plan to unfold, how he has done it for 2000 years and how he does it today and until his return.
Doesn't sound like he is all-loving, to allow such an inefficient method of saving your soul to be the only method, and knowing that it leaves out 2/3 of the population. And 1/3 of the world being Christians is probably even a record high in the history of humanity.

"We can't know God's ways." but, we can know peoples' ways. And historically, people in power have used any leverage they can to control the masses. Constantine had an enormous political advantage by converting to Christianity, for example. And I doubt Christianity would have survived if it weren't for him.

So it makes more sense to say that Christianity is an artifact of population control over the centuries, than to say that the perfect, all-loving God allows 2/3 of humanity to suffer eternal damnation just because he chose to do it that way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 06:00 AM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,445,646 times
Reputation: 2682
To understand his word as it relates to me following him as his servant.
To follow him when he calls.
I figure the rest will be revealed [or not] to me at his discretion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 06:05 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 3,273,376 times
Reputation: 530
from my point of view, the purpose of religion in general is to have a beleif in something and feel there must be a purpose to life as you know it, because the thought that we just live and die and rot in the ground is too depressing, so our advanced human minds created something "SciFi"-ish to make life more worth going thru with an imagined place to go to beyond the grave.

Not an insult and more power to ya if ya have those beleifs. I honestly envy people that have that kind of blind faith.

My question is: If your supposed to beleive in God, why are people who say they've spoken to Him considered kooks? Sorta hypocritical.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 07:34 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,057,777 times
Reputation: 17784
Quote:
What is the purpose of my life as a Christian?
Matthew 22:37-39
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 6:33
Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

As our hearts follow these two very important Scripture the rest is in God's hands! God will bring the very purpose to pass for that life! May it be evangelizing, teaching, ministering, whatever the call or purpose it will be fulfilled through Him in that life!! Most of the time the heart that is seeking Him is already walking in the light of His purpose...

Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 10-28-2008 at 09:01 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,931 posts, read 9,631,927 times
Reputation: 5370
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Doesn't sound like he is all-loving, to allow such an inefficient method of saving your soul to be the only method, and knowing that it leaves out 2/3 of the population. And 1/3 of the world being Christians is probably even a record high in the history of humanity.
Was being gracious using your numbers. Believers and those labeled "Christian" are two different things. As I stated before, being Christian is not a genetic or inherited thing.

In this day of increased technilogical prowess, the argument that "those who never heard" is wearing thin. How about those like yourself who have heard of his love and his forgiveness and not only reject it but come onto forums like this and love to shove your rejection in his followers faces?

God's love is defined by his making a way for ALL to become one with Him, not that he is damning some to hell. All have sinned and fall short. All are destined to hell, their sin has damned them already, not God. God's love is that he made a way out, not limited to the rich, the powerful, the wealthy, the connected, but for all who will believe. Belief, faith, the only requirement. Oh, and a laying down of one's pride. That one seems to get in the way doesn't it?

Yet he in his love came, lived among us, loved us in the ultimate way by dying so we could live. The way has been paved for you Logic. Yet "logic" is your god as you continue to reject the logic of the God who loves you and is calling out to you right now.

Logic, it is not my purpose to have a tit for tat with you. Might sound like I am angry, I really am not. However, it really does grieve me to see you and others that continue to use the same worn out "logic" arguments that really aren't all that logical. You are missing out on the most wonderful relationship with the author of love itself who loves you more than you can imagine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top