U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-28-2008, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,469,084 times
Reputation: 934

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Doesn't sound like he is all-loving, to allow such an inefficient method of saving your soul to be the only method, and knowing that it leaves out 2/3 of the population. And 1/3 of the world being Christians is probably even a record high in the history of humanity.

"We can't know God's ways." but, we can know peoples' ways. And historically, people in power have used any leverage they can to control the masses. Constantine had an enormous political advantage by converting to Christianity, for example. And I doubt Christianity would have survived if it weren't for him.

So it makes more sense to say that Christianity is an artifact of population control over the centuries, than to say that the perfect, all-loving God allows 2/3 of humanity to suffer eternal damnation just because he chose to do it that way.
What's stopping you from believing? Even if He sent you a sign straight from heaven, how would you even know it is He that sent it, if you don't even believe He is?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-28-2008, 08:21 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,782,393 times
Reputation: 58199
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
1 Pet. 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Don't worry, little elmer.. that war against truth has already been proclaimed, and is in full battle as we speak. The devil beat you to it! If you want to join him, go ahead...

As Christians, we need to be more sober and vigilant.. watching and praying, for truly the war of deception against truth is intensifying as we get closer to the end of time. Satan is being loosed.. the camp of the saints is being surrounded.

But lift up your heads! Redemption draws near!
Amen, CG!! Well said!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,469,084 times
Reputation: 934
Our purpose in this life as believers of the gospel of Jesus Christ, is to simply tell the story.

I love to tell the story of unseen things above,
Of Jesus and His glory, of Jesus and His love,
I love to tell the story, because I know 'tis true;
It satisfies my longings as nothing else can do,

I love to tell the story, 'twill be my theme in glory,
To tell the old, old story of Jesus and His love.

I love to tell the story; more wonderful it seems
Than all the golden fancies of all our golden dreams.
I love to tell the story, it did so much for me;
And that is just the reason I tell it now to thee'

I love to tell the story, 'twill be my theme in glory.
to tell the old, old story of Jesus and His love.

I love to tell the story; 'tis pleasant to repeat
What seem, each time I tell it, more wonderfully sweet.
I love to tell the story, for some have never heard
The message of salvation from God's own holy Word.

I love to tell the story, 'twill be my theme in glory,
To tell the old, old story of Jesus and His love.

I love to tell the story, for those who know it best
Seem hungering and thirsting to hear it like the rest.
And when, in scenes of glory, I sing the new, new song,
"Twill be the old, old story that I have loved so long.

I love to tell the story, 'twill be my theme in glory,
To tell the old, old story of Jesus and His love.

Mom in knowing she was going home to be with our Blessed Saviour, left this song for her children to sing at her services, It's been her story from since forever. This is what we are called to do, just tell the story. God Bless.

Last edited by Betsey Lane; 10-28-2008 at 09:01 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,461 posts, read 3,224,325 times
Reputation: 821
Very nice Betsy Lane
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 847,059 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Ok so you say the majority of Christians don't believe in hell? Then what's the point of doing anything Christians do to avoid hell?
There are several completely different Greek (an Hebrew) words that the one word "hell" is pasted over. This is important because nowhere in the Bible does it say that hades is gehenna or that gehenna is tartarus. These are some of the original words the Holy Spirit spelled differently, one from another, because he was talking about completely different things. Yet men put them into one English language category they call "hell," rabidly, mindlessly repeating, "There is a hell." The second death is never called hell in the Bible, yet an interpretation of this is what so many think of when they say "hell."

Let me go on to mention here...certainly the promise of God is to abolish death. The word "death" is used in 5 different ways in Scripture. Like, "I die daily," and, of those that fought wild beasts in the Circus Maximus, and, "who is baptized into Christ is baptized into His death." Why would the first death be the last enemy? If there were a thousand deaths, God word is that He will abolish all death. Why believe he would leave the worst form of it forever?

I'm not saying God won't chasten you beyond this life. I think He does. One can also be resurrected to judgment. While it seems from Scripture that, no matter what it takes or how long it takes, God will get everyone clean and belonging to Him, it also seems a shame to have to come such a hard way as some will have to take.

A friend of mine from South Africa, Bernie, posted this (excerpted) in answer to your question:

The problem once hell is removed from the equation, "what are we saved from then?" or "That gives me licence to live as I please etc."

Anyone who comes up with those kinds of question have only Fire Insurance

The saved from what comes from the very first verse in Matt that speaks about save.

"..to save His people from their sins" Mat 1:23

If you think UR or CU as we call it gives licence to sin, be my guest, go sin, go do drugs, go to the brothels, don't use a condom, drink excessive amounts of alcohol, go beat up your wife and kids, sexually molest children, go rob a convenience store, beat up some ol lady tramp, drive under the influence of alcohol or drugs, kill someone in this state.

Go on go live the good life.

Hmm, does not sound too enticing does it?

Yes sin has consequences. All of the the "good life" examples illustrated above, have consequences in the here and now. Now even and Atheist would likely not do these things. Drugs will kill you eventually, promiscuity will lead to venereal diseases, excessive alcohol consumption; cirrhosis of the liver, and the rest a hefty fine, suspension or more likely jail time. Does that sound like the good life?

No, I guess not.

See that is what Jesus came to save us from, the consequences of our sins. Through His Holy Spirit we are able to overcome our weaknesses.

If fear of Eternal Torment is the only reason you serve Jesus then you are a false disciple, a pious one at best and most likely one that has a measure of self righteousness. Read up on the Pharisees, see how Jesus dealt with their attitudes, they all thought they had it right and most of the hell verses Jesus speaks of is in direct correlation to them, the pious, righteous, whitewashed tombs.

I apologise if this sounds harsh, but anyone needing hell to be real, does not know the true heart of our Father.

Is it not ironic, the books on hell that reinforce the pious and self righteous views of salvation are such hot sellers? Why are the heaven visions not so popular? See where I am going with this, there is a verse that explains this:

Pro 23:6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:
Pro 23:7a For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:
................................................
I would add that the gospel is about the love of God, which is how Jesus said you would know His disciples: by their love one for another. Scripture also says, "Fear is not in love,but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love." (1 John 4:18)

Last edited by JamesMRohde; 10-28-2008 at 10:08 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,965 posts, read 9,655,617 times
Reputation: 5410
Logic,

There is no harm for coming to God with all your mind. If God is creator of all things, he is creator of our intellect. Great minds throughout the ages have always wrestled with spiritual truth and have come to the Lord. C. S. Lewis is one that comes to mind. God is not anti-intellectual. Some believers are, but God doesn't discrminate.

However, I don't believe you use logic as your moniker on this site represents. Any search for truth requires an open mind to grapple with truths, weigh them and make a sound judgement. Your arguments here are hardly that. You have come to this spiritual debate with an agenda already firmly in place. You are not coming as one unbiased. You have already made a mental assesment that God is not. As Betsey Lane stated above, you would reject God if God himself came to you in person since you have already formulated that He is not.

From what I can see in your posts, your main proof of your rejection of God is that a loving God would not damn whatever percentage of the world is not a Christian to hell. Many have countered this with the fact that man has damned himself by his sin and is already hellbound and God is the one who made a way for man to extract himself from this woeful position.

This is what separates biblical Christianity from all other religions (and much of what is called "Christianity"), that man can do nothing of himself to settle the sin issue that separates him from God. In this separrated state, God himself came and made a way for man to be reunited with God thru the work of his death on the cross. All other religions have in common one thing (along with much of what is called Christanity): that man through some form of devotion, good works, observance of laws, spritual realization, religious practice, nivana, etc, etc, can bridge the gap that separates him from God. It is focused on what man does to better himself.

True biblical Christianity stands alone in that the focus is totally on what God did for man. Does man have a part in this? Yes, but not of anything he does on his own but believe. It is a matter of faith. Faith that God accomplished all there is to be free from the penalty and effect of sin. Belief in this and this alone is what transforms a sinful, lost man into a child of God.

Man's pride is what keeps him from accepting this. The cross is a stumbling block. Jesus, the one who proclaimed himself to be the only truth, the only life and the only way to the Father is rejected by many. God made a way and those who reject him reject him because of this pride that man is a god unto himself and does not need a savior.

This pride takes on many forms, but the end is the same. It can be a devotion to a religious process of many different stripes. It can be a devotion to an intellect and a self sufficiency that states it does not need a God or that there is no God.

The end result is the same. Those who recognize they need a Savior beyond their own failed efforts will find Jesus. God will make himself known to them. Those that hold onto a dogma of religion or of self will not see God if he walked down the street with neon signs and sirens blazing.

However, Logic, I believe you are here because God is drawing you. I don't even pretend that I have the words that will convince you, but I do know that God is drawing you unto him. Otherwise you wouldn't come on to this site. You think you are out to dispel what Christians believe. However, you are truly searching, not in that great logical mind you have perhaps, but your spirit, dead in sin as it is, is still yearning for the Creator who made it and in whom will only give it the new life it is groaning to have.

Get in touch with that eternal part of yourself Logic. It is you, you have an eternal spirit, created in God's image. It is now dead in sin, but it yearns to be free. Don't let that great brain God gave you be the very thing that keeps your spirit dead.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,469,084 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Logic,

There is no harm for coming to God with all your mind. If God is creator of all things, he is creator of our intellect. Great minds throughout the ages have always wrestled with spiritual truth and have come to the Lord. C. S. Lewis is one that comes to mind. God is not anti-intellectual. Some believers are, but God doesn't discrminate.

However, I don't believe you use logic as your moniker on this site represents. Any search for truth requires an open mind to grapple with truths, weigh them and make a sound judgement. Your arguments here are hardly that. You have come to this spiritual debate with an agenda already firmly in place. You are not coming as one unbiased. You have already made a mental assesment that God is not. As Betsey Lane stated above, you would reject God if God himself came to you in person since you have already formulated that He is not.

From what I can see in your posts, your main proof of your rejection of God is that a loving God would not damn whatever percentage of the world is not a Christian to hell. Many have countered this with the fact that man has damned himself by his sin and is already hellbound and God is the one who made a way for man to extract himself from this woeful position.

This is what separates biblical Christianity from all other religions (and much of what is called "Christianity"), that man can do nothing of himself to settle the sin issue that separates him from God. In this separrated state, God himself came and made a way for man to be reunited with God thru the work of his death on the cross. All other religions have in common one thing (along with much of what is called Christanity): that man through some form of devotion, good works, observance of laws, spritual realization, religious practice, nivana, etc, etc, can bridge the gap that separates him from God. It is focused on what man does to better himself.

True biblical Christianity stands alone in that the focus is totally on what God did for man. Does man have a part in this? Yes, but not of anything he does on his own but believe. It is a matter of faith. Faith that God accomplished all there is to be free from the penalty and effect of sin. Belief in this and this alone is what transforms a sinful, lost man into a child of God.

Man's pride is what keeps him from accepting this. The cross is a stumbling block. Jesus, the one who proclaimed himself to be the only truth, the only life and the only way to the Father is rejected by many. God made a way and those who reject him reject him because of this pride that man is a god unto himself and does not need a savior.

This pride takes on many forms, but the end is the same. It can be a devotion to a religious process of many different stripes. It can be a devotion to an intellect and a self sufficiency that states it does not need a God or that there is no God.

The end result is the same. Those who recognize they need a Savior beyond their own failed efforts will find Jesus. God will make himself known to them. Those that hold onto a dogma of religion or of self will not see God if he walked down the street with neon signs and sirens blazing.

However, Logic, I believe you are here because God is drawing you. I don't even pretend that I have the words that will convince you, but I do know that God is drawing you unto him. Otherwise you wouldn't come on to this site. You think you are out to dispel what Christians believe. However, you are truly searching, not in that great logical mind you have perhaps, but your spirit, dead in sin as it is, is still yearning for the Creator who made it and in whom will only give it the new life it is groaning to have.

Get in touch with that eternal part of yourself Logic. It is you, you have an eternal spirit, created in God's image. It is now dead in sin, but it yearns to be free. Don't let that great brain God gave you be the very thing that keeps your spirit dead.
YES!!!!! Thank you. God's grace to you Saintmarks. Logic, we need you on this side. There's so much work to do for the King. Just open up and let Him in. It's a peace that can only come from God. Praying for you. It's not hard, just take up the cross and follow Him. Come while there's still time. It's only in love I'm trying to reach you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 10:30 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,464,238 times
Reputation: 17990
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Personally, it bugs the crap out of me when Christians get all zealous and try to convert everyone they see. Just leave people alone! If this God who can do absolutely anything wanted to save people, he would tell them himself. He wouldn't let them trust other people, since he knows people are fallible and 'get it wrong' more often than not. And he knows all, right? so of course he knows that depending on where you are born, you may become a very devout Muslim, or Jew! or.. an atheist! ooohhhh!! Heaven forbid, right? But nope, heaven does not forbid.

There are 6 billion people in this world, and only 2 billion are Christian. This all-loving god really thinks it's best to let the other 2/3 of the world suffer eternally in hell?

You need to learn to control your anger even if not a christian. You seem to have gone to alot of trouble to find and read christain forum to try to do what you accuse christians of. No one hear was addressing you actually or personally.peace and god's speed
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 847,059 times
Reputation: 205
The point is to find out how much of the image and likeness of God (His purpose in making man) we can attain in this life, even to the point of victory over everything destroying man, even victory over death. This Paul said concerning what he called The Race.

You cannot be in condemnation and be spiritual. But Jesus says except you forgive from the heart everything that you have against anyone you too will not be forgiven by the Father in heaven. You can't carry around inside of you the belief that many if not most of the people you meet are known by God to be condemned to ceaseless torture for ever and attain to the perfect love of them that casts out all fear. Jesus says whose sins you hold, they are held. You can't stop holding sin if you think God for ever holds sin against so many. You'll have to come to the truth that Jesus is the Savior of all, just as he is called in the Bible in order to continue making progress in the knowlege of God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2008, 11:34 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,280,624 times
Reputation: 3450
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Excuse the impromptu and unprepared thread, but reading over the forums today left me with this question:

What is my purpose in life as a Christian, in my daily walk, and also to bring it right home, here on City-Data Christianity forum?

It could be that each of us has a goal in mind... I don't know. If so, are we reaching it? Is it working out for us the way we expect?

An example of a goal might be the Great Commission. "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel." We wish for unbelievers to be saved. If this is my goal, am I seeing that my preaching is bringing results? If so, why? If not, why not?

Another goal might be admonishing complacent fellow Christians. Once again, what kind of results am I seeing? Are people receiving the message? Is it alive to them?

While the world or nominal Christianity may be hostile to Biblical truth, yet there IS a difference of hostility towards God (which we can't help) or hostility to me (which may sometimes be a sign to me that I may be mis-stepping on my way to my goal(s). In other words, am I standing in the way and hiding the Truth, that it cannot be seen? God forbid.)

I dunno.. maybe I'm keeping it too simple, but FIRST AND FOREMOST, the purpose of my life is to bring glory to God.. and I can do this by placing myself completely on the altar and being a vessel fit for HIS use. Being a candle shining in the night that draws men to the light, not a spotlight blinding them. Being a mirror that reflects God, and not a mirror that is out of focus and rather reflects the sinner's sin and flings his faults back at him. That is not my job...

God is calling all mankind in mercy and love... today is the day of grace. Let's make sure that the real message is getting across.
I need to consider this every day, I think.

I'm not even sure anymore what I am doing, trying to do, have done, or expect to do here on CD.

I found the site by accident while google-mining for some info on a builder I was working with.

I stumbled across the P&oC forum and saw the religion threads and boom, I was hooked. Trying to share what God has shown me in my life.

I've tried to talk to atheists who interest me very much as they (like us) seem to have a myriad of avenues where they came to atheism. I've tried to show a few of the more receptive of them that while tey may not agree with my beliefs, there is a level of our beliefs that simply is not 'blind' faith.

I've also tried to talk to Christians who could learn a lot from CD on how to speak to others in tones and manners that might actually lead to someone listening rather than slamming a door in their face. That's probably where I've failed the most.

But the most disturbing thing about my time here at CD is that many a morning I'll wake up and log on here and read rather than opening the Book of Life I claim to love so much. Coming here and chatting and talking about God is not the same as chatting and talking WITH God.

My personal relationship with God is not where it was when I started participating in CD threads.

I need to get back to that.

Please pray for me as I seek Him on when and how.

Thanks, cg81, you are such an inspiration and mentor for me.

~~God bless~~
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top