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Old 10-29-2008, 12:29 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,378,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Logic,

There is no harm for coming to God with all your mind. If God is creator of all things, he is creator of our intellect. Great minds throughout the ages have always wrestled with spiritual truth and have come to the Lord. C. S. Lewis is one that comes to mind. God is not anti-intellectual. Some believers are, but God doesn't discrminate.
Then why does my intellect draw conclusions that Christianity is a human construct, designed to control people.

Quote:
However, I don't believe you use logic as your moniker on this site represents. Any search for truth requires an open mind to grapple with truths, weigh them and make a sound judgement. Your arguments here are hardly that. You have come to this spiritual debate with an agenda already firmly in place. You are not coming as one unbiased. You have already made a mental assesment that God is not. As Betsey Lane stated above, you would reject God if God himself came to you in person since you have already formulated that He is not.
You mistake me for an atheist. I am agnostic, and am open minded, but am mostly wary of false teachings (the bible taught to do that, didn't it?) Even on this thread is discrepancy in teachings.

You are wrong. I am very open-minded to God coming to me in person. I am skeptical of people claiming they speak for God (writers of the bible included). So when God shows up and tells me to follow him, I will.

Quote:
From what I can see in your posts, your main proof of your rejection of God is that a loving God would not damn whatever percentage of the world is not a Christian to hell. Many have countered this with the fact that man has damned himself by his sin and is already hellbound and God is the one who made a way for man to extract himself from this woeful position.
If God made everything, then he made hell, and made humans 'already hellbound' as you say.

Quote:
True biblical Christianity stands alone in that the focus is totally on what God did for man. Does man have a part in this? Yes, but not of anything he does on his own but believe. It is a matter of faith. Faith that God accomplished all there is to be free from the penalty and effect of sin. Belief in this and this alone is what transforms a sinful, lost man into a child of God.
And yet you believe that God had people write his book for him. This is more than faith, this is a work.

Quote:
However, Logic, I believe you are here because God is drawing you. I don't even pretend that I have the words that will convince you, but I do know that God is drawing you unto him. Otherwise you wouldn't come on to this site. You think you are out to dispel what Christians believe. However, you are truly searching, not in that great logical mind you have perhaps, but your spirit, dead in sin as it is, is still yearning for the Creator who made it and in whom will only give it the new life it is groaning to have.
Funny how much you claim to know me.

Quote:
Get in touch with that eternal part of yourself Logic. It is you, you have an eternal spirit, created in God's image. It is now dead in sin, but it yearns to be free. Don't let that great brain God gave you be the very thing that keeps your spirit dead.
If God gave me this brain, he knew I would use it to 'stay dead in sin.' Unless, he gave it to me so I don't follow the false teachings of religions that make no sense; the religions that are people-driven rather than God-driven.
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:37 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,047,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
1 Pet. 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Don't worry, little elmer.. that war against truth has already been proclaimed, and is in full battle as we speak. The devil beat you to it! If you want to join him, go ahead...

As Christians, we need to be more sober and vigilant.. watching and praying, for truly the war of deception against truth is intensifying as we get closer to the end of time. Satan is being loosed.. the camp of the saints is being surrounded.

But lift up your heads! Redemption draws near!
Amen!!! Thank you, cg81!
Let us praise God and give Him the glory for all the great things He has done....
Your such a inspiration and a light to God's precious word and that light is always such an encouragement to His people and His Truth!!

Blessings
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:41 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,564 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Then why does my intellect draw conclusions that Christianity is a human construct, designed to control people.

You mistake me for an atheist. I am agnostic, and am open minded, but am mostly wary of false teachings (the bible taught to do that, didn't it?) Even on this thread is discrepancy in teachings.

You are wrong. I am very open-minded to God coming to me in person. I am skeptical of people claiming they speak for God (writers of the bible included). So when God shows up and tells me to follow him, I will.

If God made everything, then he made hell, and made humans 'already hellbound' as you say.

And yet you believe that God had people write his book for him. This is more than faith, this is a work.

Funny how much you claim to know me.

If God gave me this brain, he knew I would use it to 'stay dead in sin.' Unless, he gave it to me so I don't follow the false teachings of religions that make no sense; the religions that are people-driven rather than God-driven.
It would seem that you and Thomas Paine, and Thomas of the Bible have a lot in common.

Quote:
Then why does my intellect draw conclusions that Christianity is a human construct, designed to control people.
Because this is what "Christianity" has evolved in, in the last 1900 or so years. A religion.

Quote:
You mistake me for an atheist. I am agnostic, and am open minded, but am mostly wary of false teachings (the bible taught to do that, didn't it?) Even on this thread is discrepancy in teachings.
Smart thinking. The way of the Bereans. Only difference is, they believed in the Old Testament teachings, to search them out and thus believe the Christ story.

Quote:
You are wrong. I am very open-minded to God coming to me in person. I am skeptical of people claiming they speak for God (writers of the bible included). So when God shows up and tells me to follow him, I will.
I hope He does. I pray He does.

Quote:
If God made everything, then he made hell, and made humans 'already hellbound' as you say.
That is another "doctrine" of Calvinism. People preordained to burn for eternity. Of course, I don't believe this, but some do.

Quote:
And yet you believe that God had people write his book for him. This is more than faith, this is a work.
Actually does it matter who wrote what? Does God change based on the translations? The Bible is a road map so to speak, to gain understanding and wisdom into how God wants us to live, for Him. We must first look at the map, and then travel down that road. Traveling the road, is the FAITH.

Quote:
If God gave me this brain, he knew I would use it to 'stay dead in sin.' Unless, he gave it to me so I don't follow the false teachings of religions that make no sense; the religions that are people-driven rather than God-driven.
And sometimes the Agnostics make perfect sense. I actually believe Thomas Paine when he wrote this in 1794:

Quote:
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
Sad that religion in general has come to this. On the larger stage, it really has become evident. Thankfully on the smaller scale, there is decent churches out there not pushing propaganda controlling drivel on their congregations.

Jesus had a simple yet powerful message. The children understood it, but the religious leaders had not a clue. Only those willing to listen, drew close to Him.
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:27 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,566,008 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
But the most disturbing thing about my time here at CD is that many a morning I'll wake up and log on here and read rather than opening the Book of Life I claim to love so much. Coming here and chatting and talking about God is not the same as chatting and talking WITH God.

My personal relationship with God is not where it was when I started participating in CD threads.

I need to get back to that.

Please pray for me as I seek Him on when and how.

Thanks, cg81, you are such an inspiration and mentor for me.

~~God bless~~
Alpha, you've inspired me.. I've seen you grow. I think alot of us have grown spiritually in the last year or two.

At the same time, I also know what you mean when you say "talking about God is not the same as talking with Him." I feel a need for a deeper relationship in my own life with my Maker.

There are many things that test our faith... blatant false teaching (from "Christians" ) gets me down... unbelievers slander the God that saved me, the God I know and love.. these things and more break my heart, and sometimes cause me to put my eyes on the waves, instead of towards the Master of the storm.

He wants to save everyone, teach everyone the truth, but most of all, He wants to be close to ME. May I never forget that.

I wish you courage as you fight the battle alongside of me (and all of those who hunger after truth), knowing that when you get thru this battle you will be stronger then ever.

God bless, brother.

cg81
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:50 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,563,062 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
There IS a hell, and no matter how hard they try to make it go away by re-interpreting scripture....hell is real, hell is full of fire and it is eternal. As in forever and ever. There is no "eventual restoration of all" as some would try to lead you to believe. It's just another one of Satan's tools to try and fool the masses into believing that all will be ok no matter what you do in this life. It's not Biblical, it's false teaching and it's heretical.

No matter what anyone tries to tell you, we all have two choices according to God's Word, the Bible.
Repent, ask Jesus to become your Savior and live a Godly life and spend an eternity in heaven with God
OR
Deny God, live for the devil and yourself and spend an eternity in hell.
DOTL, I don't know any "Christian" (personally) who believes there will not be judgment - in fact (I don't know your belief other than what you've posted here at CD) but I possibly believe in more severe judgment for the house of God than you. Christians need to get back to their first Love - carnality will not enter in. We should accept His fire as it comes.

The thought of people having no reason to live for Him without an eternal damnation to "dodge" is what this teaching is founded on. I personally believe that a relationship with Him founded on fear (which is the way a large segment of people are "saved") is not conducive to a deep, long lasting and fruitful life in Him. We are to be united with Him in Spirit, the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead...and leads us into all truth. If we cannot see Him as Lord of all - and in all, then there is a malfunction somewhere.

As for His creation, I definitely believe He will restore all things to Him. Our God is a consuming fire, and all of us will have to face His holiness. It's biblically based, as has been discussed in previous threads.

Peace.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,915 posts, read 9,604,923 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
DOTL, I don't know any "Christian" (personally) who believes there will not be judgment - in fact (I don't know your belief other than what you've posted here at CD) but I possibly believe in more severe judgment for the house of God than you. Christians need to get back to their first Love - carnality will not enter in. We should accept His fire as it comes.

The thought of people having no reason to live for Him without an eternal damnation to "dodge" is what this teaching is founded on. I personally believe that a relationship with Him founded on fear (which is the way a large segment of people are "saved") is not conducive to a deep, long lasting and fruitful life in Him. We are to be united with Him in Spirit, the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead...and leads us into all truth. If we cannot see Him as Lord of all - and in all, then there is a malfunction somewhere.

As for His creation, I definitely believe He will restore all things to Him. Our God is a consuming fire, and all of us will have to face His holiness. It's biblically based, as has been discussed in previous threads.

Peace.
The absolute joy of knowing the Lord is worth it even if there were not a promise of heaven or a free pass of hell. One escapes the hell and imprisonment of sin in the here and now. That is the beauty of salvation.

What is sin? It is the opposite of whatever God is. To know God is to know holiness. The definition of holiness is the absolute absence of the sin and all its trappings: death, destruction, aloneness.

Of course as we are still on this fallen earth clothed in fallen flesh, we continue to struggle with sin. But thank God that eternal part of us, our spirits are now alive and cleansed and free of the effect of our sin, all because of the blood of Jesus and his nailing that sin to the cross.

Still we have the joy of not having to worry about our eternal condition. But I agree with you and other posters here. If that is the only reason you are a Christian, man, you are missing out on the main point: a relationship with the living, loving creator of all things.
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Old 10-31-2008, 06:57 AM
 
Location: UK.
348 posts, read 451,111 times
Reputation: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I need to consider this every day, I think.

I've tried to talk to atheists who interest me very much as they (like us) seem to have a myriad of avenues where they came to atheism.

I've also tried to talk to Christians who could learn a lot from CD on how to speak to others in tones and manners that might actually lead to someone listening rather than slamming a door in their face. That's probably where I've failed the most.

I need to get back to that.
You are too harsh on yourself. Alpha. But keep trying, and you'll get there... you wouldn't deliberately hurt anyone, I'm quite sure.
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Old 11-02-2008, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 1,174,235 times
Reputation: 464
Interesting that he recognizes that there are 6 billion in the world and only 2 billion are Christains. .....hummmm........haven't done the math on this myself, but wouldn't that just increase our faith in God? 1/3 of the earth are Christains? 1/3 ring a bell to anyone besides me? Just Food For the Believer.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:25 AM
 
Location: India
11 posts, read 13,527 times
Reputation: 10
The puporse of my life is to glorfiy my saviour and to introduce Him as saviour and the redeemer from sins and death .
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Canada
589 posts, read 1,317,119 times
Reputation: 251
The true Church is the "elect" or the "called out ones." For fearing God and obeying his Law... the 10 Commandments... the elect will be in the "Gathering of the Saints" for a purpose (Matt 24:29-31)... and that is to become kings and priests to rule with Jesus Christ on earth for 1000 years. (Rev 20:4-6)
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