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Old 10-28-2008, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,797 posts, read 47,704,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
forestbeekeeper, Yes, the mainstream church is a lot more fun and we don't take ourselves toooo seriously, though many in our faith have given their lives to defend it and to serve God.
Having fun is important, I suppose.

Though worshipping pagan deities, observing pagan ceremonies, and teaching seriously flawed doctrines; somehow seems to me like taking that 'fun' a bit too far.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:41 PM
 
25,655 posts, read 24,331,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Having fun is important, I suppose.

Though worshipping pagan deities, observing pagan ceremonies, and teaching seriously flawed doctrines; somehow seems to me like taking that 'fun' a bit too far.
Well, for sincere pagans, it's not "fun" in the ha-ha sense either, any more than church is.

Do you run all around and play Skeeball in church? Do you bring in a TV so you can catch the latest episode of Grey's Anatomy? Well, neither do pagans in their observations. Is it supposed to be "fun"? I thought it was supposed to be reverent. And therefore, in its own way, very satisfying and emotional, but not "fun"...I think it's pretty telling that you yourself brought up the concept of seeing paganism as "fun". No pagans did. Maybe this says more about your own deep down beliefs (and resentment) than it does about the next person's actual practices.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:00 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,453,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Having fun is important, I suppose.

Though worshipping pagan deities, observing pagan ceremonies, and teaching seriously flawed doctrines; somehow seems to me like taking that 'fun' a bit too far.
Forest beekeper, all I can do at this point is pray for God to open your eyes and give you clarity of vision. Please stop insulting and assualting my faith. We do not worship pagan dieties. We do not observe pagan ceremonies We do not have seriously flawed doctrines.

The books of the bible you so vigorously thump, were selected among many writings and placed into the canon by the fathers of the mainstream church who at the time of assemblage of the Canon developed the core creeds of the church. Did the same God who steered them to select the correct books to make up the New Testament steer them incorrectly in developing the early doctrine? Remember, Your beliefs would be very different had they kept the gnostic writings, or thrown out the book of Revelation [which they almost did!] -

I really don't think someone who is ok with slavery as are you really understands the message of Christ, not in his heart.
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,797 posts, read 47,704,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
Forest beekeper, all I can do at this point is pray for God to open your eyes and give you clarity of vision. Please stop insulting and assualting my faith. We do not worship pagan dieties. We do not observe pagan ceremonies We do not have seriously flawed doctrines.
I have not asked you of what denomination your faith group is. If you feel insulted by my post it was not done by my intent.

I had assumed that most 'Mainstream' Christians celebrate Christmas for example. You say that you do not celebrate any pagan festivals, so perhaps you do not.
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:26 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,453,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
I have not asked you of what denomination your faith group is. If you feel insulted by my post it was not done by my intent.

I had assumed that most 'Mainstream' Christians celebrate Christmas for example. You say that you do not celebrate any pagan festivals, so perhaps you do not.
Well it does not matter what you knew I was because you insulted anyone who is a mainline Christian. It is one thing to say you do not agree with someone else's beliefs and practices and quite another to say we worship pagan dieties and perform pagan ceremonies. You can say our doctrine is flawed [in your opnion].

Since you responded in my thread on the Creeds, I assume you would figure I was a mainline Christian. I do not celebrate any pagan festivals. I celebrate the festivals of the liturgical year with joy. I think they give a depth and richness to our church and keep us from conveniently forgetting parts of Christ's life and ministry some may want to ignore.

I am a Lutheran Christian. All Lutheran Christians agree on certain fundamentals, and that includes creeds and some doctrines. After that you find as much divergence [from literal fundamentalists to very liberal believers] within the body of the Church - so that my Lutheran next door and I may ardently argue/disagree about political topics relative to the Church but do not feel that our differences condemn us to eternal damnation.

So yes, the *founder* of my church is widely credited with bringing the first Christmas Tree in the church. And I guess because we decorate them with symbols of the church [like the chi rho, crown and cross, agnus dei, etc.] we are somehow being pagan - IN YOUR MIND

Doing all this does not make it pagan or a pagan ceremony. The very dates for Passover were set by the relationship of the phase of the moon to the vernal equinox as is our current Easter. Ancient peoples were very in tune with the changes of the seasons and our Church spread in ancient times. How wonderful they could take the same observations of the natural world, remove the worship of multiple dieties from them and use the rich symbolism to support our faith. This goes on all over the world - we are talking traditions, customs, heritage, traditions, - NOT core faith.
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:39 PM
 
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
2,178 posts, read 6,167,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
americans have just discovered black magic, the occult and paganism, and bek it is new to them they think it is wonderful. kind of like a young pretty girl that goes on a joy ride with some bangbangers she met at school, she thinks they are going to go to some place where its fun and exciting but they have a different plan.

Just discovered it? Really? I beg to differ, sir
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:16 PM
 
272 posts, read 431,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
americans have just discovered black magic, the occult and paganism, and bek it is new to them they think it is wonderful. kind of like a young pretty girl that goes on a joy ride with some bangbangers she met at school, she thinks they are going to go to some place where its fun and exciting but they have a different plan.
I find this interesting and ironic. I won't get into the ironic part, because this is a Christian board. These practices you speak of predates Christianity by thousands of years, although in a different form. I'll just point to Egypt as one example. I think all Christians would agree Egypt bleeds magic, occult, spells and paganism. They are many more, especially around the 16th century, but I'll stop there.
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:21 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,453,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
I have not asked you of what denomination your faith group is. If you feel insulted by my post it was not done by my intent.

I had assumed that most 'Mainstream' Christians celebrate Christmas for example. You say that you do not celebrate any pagan festivals, so perhaps you do not.
I made some assumptions about what you believed so I guess maybe the Bible as it exists may not be so important? I am not sure you are a unitarian [sure don't seem like one], a dieist? "the way"

I don't know. but a gather you do not believe Jesus = God. So I gather that is the heresy you acclaim. So since you would then be "Arian" are there OTHER ancestral biblical writings you hold to? Any way my comment about the current NT would not apply to you I assume because you may consider it incomplete...........
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,797 posts, read 47,704,290 times
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I am Unitarian. A few organizations that I am a member of were big with the Deists of the 1700s and 1800s, so I do have a bit of knowledge about them.

I study both the Old Testament and New Testament.

There is a great deal of documentation showing the Non-Biblical origins of many things that are commonly assumed to be of Christian origin.

Christmas, Easter, New Years, Birthday celebrations, Mary worship, the trinity, the title of 'pope', lent, Sunday as a holy day.

Each came from other religions.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 846,520 times
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I read the link.

Rome doesn't sit on 7 hills. They are across the Tiber. Old Jerusalem does sit on 7 hills. They are Mt Goath, Mt Gareb, Mt Acra, Mt Bezetha, Mt Zion, Mt Ophel, and Mt Moriah. It is very clear, Scripture itself speaks:

"The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem..." (Is 1:1) This is what God calls them: " Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD..." (Is 1:10) This is what God says of Jerusalem: "How is the faithful city become an harlot!" (Is 1:21)

In N.T. Scripture Babylon is defined: "...in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Rev 11:8) God says of Babylon: "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." (Rev 18:24) This compares to Jesus words concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth..." (Mt 23:35)

It is "'mystery' Babylon, mother of harlots" we are concerned with anyway. Of this mother's harlot children, Rome is only one older daughter. The people who are betrothed to God as a chaste virgin unto one husband, yet make love to a religious system rather than to the living God, they are the prostitutes. Just like in the beginning of Proverbs. Yet, after all the wisdom of the intervening chapters work, the last chapter describes the virtuous woman.

Many unthinkingly confuse the civil sphere of authority with "earthly religious systems heirarchy." This confusion is at the heart of Babylon's stronghold in many minds. They believe a church is just another institution run by an elite group of men. They seem unable to believe in the presence of the Holy Spirit sent in Jesus name, God Himself to be intimate with us, leading us in our gatherings Himself. We prevent whoever would take over the meetings from doing so to honor the Headship of Christ. Meet without human headship. The etymology of Babel through the Hebrew balal is "to stir up, to confound" or, as many have it, "confusion." There is a living God who is present with living people. That is the Church. There also are religious governments of this world that have no exitence of themselves, only in the minds of men. I maintain only God should occupy that place in us or have that relationship with us, the relationship we've given to religious systems, whatever they're called , and only as examples: Baptist or Roman Catholic, some independent local fellowship or anything of the sort. Do you realize no one can speak with any such thing as the American Baptist Church or the Roman Catholic Church? Yow cannot locate such an entity. They have no ears and no mouth. Just like idols. The people in these things all get replaced yet the system remains. The people are completely other than the ones who were using them as a reason for what we're supposed to do or believe, say 200 years ago. God and His Word is our authority for faith and practice, not a religious establishment and it's traditions. They obviously aren't the Kingdom of God or everyone outside any specific one couldn't be walking with God. Those who should be God's bride who instead have intimate intercourse with Institutional Christianity are Mystical Babyon.

Last edited by JamesMRohde; 10-28-2008 at 08:42 PM..
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